Disclose Barriers, Provide Solutions: How to Empower Employees and Employers - Nate Toevs
Create better workplaces for people with disabilities. Include safe spaces to ask for help, take a stance to reduce stigma, and build support systems.
Nate Toevs - Bio
Nate is the Marketing Manager at Neil Squire, a non-profit organization that has been revolutionizing the lives of Canadians with disabilities since 1984 through accessible technology.
Nate has a long-standing background in Retail, Wholesale and business-to-business sales and marketing activities. Nate lives with “not formally diagnosed ADHD” and considers it his superpower, except when it is not!
WorkBC Assistive Technology Services provides access to assessments and assistive or adaptive technologies to minimize or overcome training and workplace barriers to employment.
Contact Links:
Summary
In this episode, Nate Toevs from Neil Squire discusses the critical role of workplace inclusivity for individuals with disabilities. He emphasizes the importance of disclosing barriers, rather than diagnoses, and highlights how employers have to provide accommodations. Nate explains the value of assessments and assistive technology in tailoring solutions that meet individual needs and encourages employees to research available programs and funding to support these accommodations.
Throughout the conversation, Nate shares positive experiences from employers who have embraced inclusivity, and he offers strategies for creating a safe environment where employees feel comfortable disclosing their needs. He stresses the importance of an inclusive interview process, helping employers attract and support talent with disabilities. Additionally, Nate underlines the unique value that employees with disabilities bring to the workforce, including problem-solving skills, resilience, and loyalty.
The episode ultimately advocates for both employers and employees to take action—employers to foster inclusive environments and employees to come prepared with solutions and self-advocacy strategies. Ending the stigma around invisible conditions, Nate argues, begins with awareness, education, and a focus on empowering individuals to speak up for the tools and support they need.
Takeaways:
For Individuals:
Communicate Your Needs: Don’t be afraid to ask for accommodations, but focus on describing the barriers you face rather than disclosing your diagnosis. Bring potential solutions if possible.
Leverage Available Resources: Research programs and funding available for accommodations, such as government assistance, assistive technology, or workplace policies, to support your needs.
Build a Support Network: Reach out to colleagues, HR, or other employees who have gone through similar situations for advice and emotional support.
For Workplaces:
Create a Safe Disclosure Environment: Encourage a culture where employees feel comfortable asking for accommodations by being open about the process and educating your leadership team on inclusion.
Offer Flexible Accommodations: Be proactive in offering accommodations during hiring and onboarding, like ergonomic assessments or flexible work arrangements, to make employees feel supported from the start.
Provide Inclusive Job Descriptions: Write job ads that focus on essential skills rather than unrealistic qualifications, and clearly state your willingness to accommodate from the interview stage onward.
Chapters:
00:00 Empowerment Through Disclosure
07:11 Navigating Workplace Accommodations
12:27 The Importance of Trust in Disclosure
18:16 Overcoming Barriers to Accommodation
24:51 Creating Inclusive Job Descriptions
30:11 The Role of Employers in Supporting Employees
36:00 Advocating for Yourself
43:45 Ending the Stigma of Invisible Conditions
Transcript
Nate (00:00) You don't have to disclose a diagnosis. You can explain to somebody what it is that you're struggling with and how it'll help you do the work that they're asking you to do. So it's...
I guess you have to be empowered and I recognize everything you said is absolutely true and the fear and you can't dismiss that and you can't minimize it either. But at some point, if it's about suffering or solutions, we have to make that call. We have to make that decision to be able to move forward.
Tim Reitsma (00:36) I recently had to advocate for myself in a professional setting and I was reminded of what my guest today said. Start by disclosing the barriers, not necessarily the diagnosis. When we disclose, most employers, just don't know how to accommodate us. But guess what? We know what we need so we can perform at our best. Navigating our workplaces, the barriers, the uncertainty, and on top of that, the fear of speaking up. Like how do we thrive in a job?
when our invisible condition isn't always recognized or understood. Hey, Tim here, and thanks for tuning into another episode of the Invisible Condition Podcast, where we talk about advocacy and the unusually normal things that we live with, the conditions, diseases, and illnesses. We will end the stigma of invisible conditions by empowering voices, and today's voice is brought to us by Nate Toevs. Nate works for an organization supporting employees and employers with assistive technology recommendations.
disability inclusion support and disability advocacy. Nate brings so much experience helping individuals and businesses navigate workplace accommodations. We talk about how employees can advocate for themselves and on the flip side, how organizations can really build an inclusive workplace culture. So maybe you're somebody who's living with an invisible condition or you're a leader who just strives is striving to create a more supportive environment, this episode is for you. Have a listen.
Tim Reitsma (02:09) Nate, I am just so excited, honored to have you on the show. We met through mutual friends, our friend, Dr. Natasha Ghosh, and she said to me, Tim, you need to talk to Nate. And I'm not gonna steal your thunder. I would love for you to introduce who you are, what makes you tick, why you do the work that you do. And we're gonna have just a fantastic conversation. I'm setting us up, so we must have a fantastic conversation, but welcome, Nate.
Nate (02:35) Yeah.
I know we're going to have a great conversation. Thank you, Tim. Appreciate the opportunity today. And yeah, through our friend Dr. Ghosh, Natasha is a wonderful human and it's no wonder she made this connection. I work for a great social impact organization called Neil Squire. Neil Squire Society. Some people will still call us, we are a society, but we've rebranded under just Neil Squire and social impact organization that operates as a nonprofit. And we mostly work with persons with disabilities, mostly with a physical disability. There's a little crossover into people that are neurodiverse or have a cognitive barrier, but most of our clients have a physical barrier to the world. And, you know, I kind of fell into the opportunity to be really frank with you. I knew the management group because I used to be their representative for a copier company that I worked for. And, I served their account for like eight years and I developed a really good relationship with some of the key people in the organization, especially the senior executive and the decision makers. And when my career ended in the copier business, not to my own wishes, I had a conversation with Greg who's our national operations manager and he thought he had a great opportunity for me at the time. And here we are, I'm in year 10.
I'm doing my life's work. You know, you see these TV shows and you can take your superpower and use it for good or evil. I chose good Tim. And it's to advocate for, no it advocates probably the wrong word. I'm not an advocate, although obviously I do some advocating. But my role is to promote our work at Neil Squire and specifically a provincially funded program called Work BC.
Tim Reitsma (04:13) Hahaha.
Nate (04:32) and most people will know what WorkBC is in British Columbia, but it's Assistive Technology Services. So we work with the WorkBC employment centers in BC, there's 102 of them. My role is to train their staff and educate them about how to get their clients into the program that has funding for assessments, the most important part of the process, understand somebody's barrier and then getting the tools they need. And then...
people that already in the workforce that have nothing to do with WorkBC may also qualify. So I do a lot of networking, that's how I met Dr. Natasha Ghosh, was through a business networking group called BNI. And so I go to a lot of chamber events, Board of Trade events. I'm a professional networker really is what it is. I have a couple titles at the organization. One is employer outreach developer. That's probably my best title. But in this provincially funded program, they call me a marketing manager, I do market.
for sure and it's just you talk about using your skills for good. I get to use all my sales and networking and communication skills to promote our work.
Tim Reitsma (05:40) I appreciate that intro. I think that you do such good work. Neil Squire does amazing work. And for those who are listening who aren't located in British Columbia, Canada, I believe that there are organizations across the globe like Neil Squire and maybe Neil Squire is a diamond in the rough, so to speak. It's been around for 40 years. In June, you invited me to come down to the 40th year anniversary party and what a party it was. And just, Being able to hear stories of success, of advocating for folks, helping provide assistive technology, providing ways to, for people with invisible and visible conditions get employed. So that's really the purpose of our episode is for those who, hey, maybe you're living with a disability, a condition, and are really struggling with disclosure, maybe asking for that accommodation.
But maybe you're an employer or maybe you're going to send this to your employer and say, hey, this is what you need to do. And yes, we are speaking a bit specific to British Columbia here in Canada. But but I know a little bit about the American Disability Act and the duty to accommodate and what we need to disclose and what we don't need to disclose when it comes to an accommodation. So, you know, we're just going to get right into it. I know that work that you do excites you and helping organizations.
with accommodations. I've heard many times over that accommodations, most accommodations are either free or cost $500 or less. Truth or myth in your experience.
Nate (07:22) Yeah, well, it's a little bit of both actually, Tim. The average cost in British Columbia is $500. We have data that backs that up. But what isn't in that $500 is the cost of the assessment. Because it isn't, I need to get a piece of software that's worth $500. It's which piece of software? It's which ergonomic chair? It's which keyboard or mouse for that person with arthritis?
So the assessment that we do at Neil Squire through our occupational therapist team is the most important part of the process. And then that OT occupational therapist generates a report and then they work with our assistive technology specialists. Tim, that's where the barrier is for most small businesses or self -employed individuals is that is a one, two, three, four, $5 ,000 ticket depending on the complexity of the situation.
But the average thing that we recommend, the average dollar amount is about $500. Yeah, there's some extreme examples obviously where the cost is higher than that, but on average, that's the numbers that we've crunched.
Tim Reitsma (08:34) And how does somebody, especially if somebody who's maybe in the workplace who needs to ask for accommodation and then hears like, there's an assessment process or that, you know, is that gonna be out of my pocket? And again, we're speaking specific to where we are and we don't, we're not speaking necessarily to the global law or laws in that space where you might be listening from, but you know, that is one barrier is that, okay, sure it might be a free accommodation or under $500. How do we then as organizations overcome that barrier?
Nate (09:12) Yeah, great question. So if you've ever sat with a good lawyer and you ask them a question, Tim, they usually say it depends. So here's, let's look, let's shine a positive light on this for a moment. With the tight employment situation that we've gone through globally in the last couple of years.
If you're doing a good job in your organization, you can be darn sure there's a high likelihood they'd like to keep you. And to spend a little money to make sure that you can do your job effectively and overcome barriers is a fraction of what it costs to replace you, nevermind train you. So keep that in your pocket just for a minute because that's really good news.
depending on the complexity of the situation would depend on what level of assessment that you need. If somebody's struggling with a bad back, they got some issues with some wrist, shoulder, neck, they may need a ergonomic assessment that can be carried out by people that are ergonomists or kinesiologists. And that the cost of that assessment would be dramatically less.
than something where you have a person that's a high level quad or collegiate or somebody who's blind and just trying to figure out all the different machinations of software and how it would work with the company's legacy systems and all that. That certainly would get more complex. But depending on the situation, there's a variety of different levels of expertise that would be needed depending on what that individual is dealing with. So first of all is, What are you dealing with? Have you talked to HR? If you have talked to HR, if you haven't, HR may have dealt with this 10 times in the last five years and you don't even know about it because they did it nicely and quietly as they should. And so it might not be near as big of a deal, I guess is what I'm saying. So again, it depends, Tim, but disclosing not your disability, not your diagnosis, but the barrier you're having opens up the door.
And there's a high likelihood, especially if it's a medium to large size organization, this is not new ground for them to cover.
Tim Reitsma (11:32) Yeah, I think you're touching on something that's really important to address is, even that word disclosure is scary. And disclosing, hey, you live with a specific condition. I mean, how much you disclose is up to that individual. But we might not disclose because maybe we have been judged or shamed, or there's fear of like discrimination. And...
I know I've talked to some, it's like, but that doesn't happen at our organization, but that's dismissive because somebody might have living or lived through that trauma. And so it's kind of twofold, isn't it? Where the organization has the duty of saying, hey, we will accommodate, but also the organization needs to have enough trust or a trusting environment for somebody to then disclose. And...
And so for somebody who's struggling, what do you say to somebody who needs an accommodation, needs some support?
Nate (12:39) Yeah, well, okay, so, you know, that's a loaded question, eh? So let's say you're working for one of these medium and large organizations, and you've recently seen the CEO or HR or somebody in there talking about this openly. Well, that should open the door for you to feel confident that you can go in there and talk about it. Maybe the association that they're a part of, maybe it's, you know, a software company, maybe the software association has done a...
Tim Reitsma (12:43) It is.
Nate (13:10) written a newsletter and your CEO or your HR individual was quoted in it and they said how important that is to disclose. Those are the things that should open the door for you. But I go back to my original comment. You don't have to disclose a diagnosis. You can explain to somebody what it is that you're struggling with and how it'll help you do the work that they're asking you to do. So it's...
I guess you have to be empowered and I recognize everything you said is absolutely true and the fear and you can't dismiss that and you can't minimize it either. But at some point, if it's about suffering or solutions, we have to make that call. We have to make that decision to be able to move forward. Now, what many employers will say or bosses or leaders will, Don't come to me with problems, come to me with solutions. Maybe there's some research you can do. The internet is a powerful tool. Google, chat GPT, other, go see a practitioner on that's covered by your medical benefits. And perhaps, perhaps they can give you an idea of what the solution is and you can come to your employer, to HR or health and safety or whoever the people that talk to in your organization.
with the problem and the solution all bundled into one. And again, maybe it's not as big of a deal as what you think. Lastly, perhaps there's somebody else in the office that you know has dealt with this and you could go talk to them and see how they handled it and get an idea of, was it a painful process? Was it easier than they thought? But that's another avenue to take. Again, you're having to disclose to somebody, I guess, but we all have somebody.
in the office or most of us have somebody in the office we're close to where you can have those conversations, hopefully.
Tim Reitsma (15:11) I love that you brought that up and you brought it to action. Bringing a solution, bringing, it might not be the right solution, but at least it gets the conversation started. Because we might not know the solution and really struggling, really suffering, and that's okay. But if we just pause for a moment and say, okay, what do I need in this moment? What do I need right now? And maybe it is, a little bit of time off. Maybe it's an extension on a deadline. Maybe it's support on a project. Or maybe, as you said, maybe it's something physical, arthritis or back or something where you know if you were able to stand for part of the day, it would alleviate that pain. So price out a standup desk and it doesn't have to be the $7 ,000 standup desk. It could be the one from your local, I don't know, shout out to IKEA or I've got one of those.
It doesn't have to be a super expensive, but say, hey, this is what's happening. And if it goes further and hey, we need to, you know, let's get a doctor's note. That's fine, go to your doctor if you can, if you have that opportunity. Because before we hit record, I shared a simple accommodation that I need. And I am anemic and my iron is extremely low and I got a call the day we're recording this to say, hey, we have a cancellation for the next day, for tomorrow at two o 'clock. And I said, okay, I guess I'll take it because it could be months. If I went to my manager and said, I have an appointment at the same time in my meeting, I don't know what to do. It might not be met with positivity, but instead saying, hey, we have a meeting at this time. I see there's an opening in your calendar the next day at this time.
I've gone ahead and readjusted that meeting, let me know if that's okay. All right, it's being proactive. That's what I'm hearing from you.
Nate (17:09) There you go, that's see there what a great way to turn that into another, again, an action item on a different, you know, situation where a meeting with your manager, a meeting with a client, it could be a meeting with, it could be anything coming to the table with a solution has value. The other part, the other thing Tim, I'd recommend there, whether you're in British Columbia or other parts of Canada or in the US, look for a program. Maybe there's a program in your area, provincially, federally, statewide that looks after that. In BC, as mentioned, I'm the marketing manager for the assistive technology services program. People that work in a small business may qualify for this program. A bigger business, again, that duty to accommodate, all employers have a duty to accommodate. We kind of fill the gap for the ones where there's a undue hardship may be caused. And depending on where you are, maybe there's something like that for you as well.
that can make a difference and again, be that solution for the problem and you can bring that to the employer, right?
Tim Reitsma (18:16) That's great, right? And that's like part of the work that you do with Neil Squire and through the government funding where I did a quick search and there's what's funding exists in the US as well as across different parts of Canada and there's funding out there. And so some of it is obscure and hard to find, but being able to just take that time and say, look, I know we work for a small company. I know our budgets are tight. I found this program. If we sign up for this, then there's opportunity for...
Nate (18:23) Yeah.
Tim Reitsma (18:45) for funding for X, Y or Z or whatever you're looking for. And I know you do, just to kind of switch gears a sec here, you do significant amount of networking. I think you said you called yourself that professional networker. When people hear accommodation from an employer perspective, what is that reaction? Is it a positive reaction? Is it an apprehension? I'm really curious what kind of reaction you get.
Nate (19:13) You mean when do I speak to employers out in the marketplace? Yeah, it really depends on their experience with that, Tim. The larger the organization, the more often they'll have crossed that bridge for sure. When you speak with some people, when you say accommodation, they mean hotel room, Airbnb, and then you know you're in big trouble and they don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. But certainly the, I do a lot of.
Tim Reitsma (19:15) Yeah, yeah.
Nate (19:40) work in the HR circle here in British Columbia with a Canadian professional of human resources for BC and Yukon. And in that environment, you know, it's stuff that they've learned in school. There's no doubt about it that they have an understanding of the laws because, well, they're not all the same. They're all generally similar, if you will. If there was a lawyer on the call with us.
he or she would be shaking their head. But they really are, they are strikingly similar in most of the United States and Canada in that as an employer, you have a duty to supply the tools reasonably that your employees need. And so, back to my comment of that tight labor market.
The worst thing that people can do is not go and then not be able to do the work. And it's because they couldn't or wouldn't, not couldn't, wouldn't ask. And then you've put the employer in a tough situation when you don't disclose that you're having this issue and you can't complete the work needed in the time given. Or if you're, or what a lot of people do, and I'm sure you'll under, you'll appreciate this is that.
They won't disclose and then what they do is they work extra hours to finish the work.
which affects their personal life. And eventually there's a price to pay there too, right Tim? So, you know, most employers I've talked to, they'd rather hear. They'd rather hear that you need help. Now, mind you, are the ones that say, are the ones that aren't gonna really be responsive to that conversation gonna tell you? I guess maybe not, but.
Most of the employers that we talk to, that we educate for the first time are like, I love Sally, I like Joseph. We value their work. If there's anything we need to get them so that they can do their best job, we'll do anything we can to help them. It's usually the conversation, it's usually how it goes.
Tim Reitsma (21:51) Yeah, there's some data out of the US now. I came across a report that more and more people with disabilities are being employed. I think that's one of the highest levels right now. But yet there's another report, I can't remember if it was Accenture or KPMG, where employees are still at high levels, like 70 plus percent, willing to not disclose out of fear.
And so it's, it's some, something's got to give, doesn't it? Right. Where, you know, we, we have to create these spaces and you kind of alluded to that, right? Spaces where people feel it's safe to disclose. And when you talk with organizations, whether it's small, medium or large, I'm curious, what programs have you seen that they, that they share with their employees? Or do you have access to, or have you heard of what people.
Nate (22:21) Yeah.
Tim Reitsma (22:50) what organizations are doing to encourage people to say, hey, we're here to support you.
Nate (22:56) Yeah, so I guess, especially with my work in the HR field is.
is we're teaching employers how to first of all post an ad that will attract a person with a disability. And there's a couple things there. In British Columbia again, there's a really amazing group called the President's Group and they have a website called accessible or www .accessibleemployers .ca. And it's a tool, it's a resource toolkit.
of all sorts of amazing resources to hire people with disabilities. And on there, they write, they have ads that are pre -written so that you can, without having to reinvent the wheel, you can literally pull this stuff down, customize it a bit for your opportunity and put it on there. But a couple of the key points is stop writing your ads that you need Superman or Superwoman or Superperson to respond to them.
Right? Like, you know, where the first five things are, okay, so you had to be a valedictorian, you had to be top of your class, you know, you had to volunteer 300 hours a week, you know, or something like that. And it's just all these incredible things that you're asking people for that it just, a person with a disability might just go, are you kidding me? So write your job description for what...
people have to have from a skill set. Like what are the must haves? And then sure, there might be some nice to haves after that, but what are your must haves? If you must have somebody with a university degree, okay, put that. But what degree does it have to be a master's or does it have to be a bachelor level? And then lastly, put in your ad that you're an equal opportunity employer. You're willing to provide accommodations right from the.
right from the interview process forward and then create that environment that allows somebody to succeed in that way, which is.
Do they know how to get to your building on transit, by foot, with their vehicle? Where's the entrance? If there's somebody in a wheelchair, is the way for the person with the wheelchair the same as the non -disabled person? And all those things, provide them a little extra information that makes it easier. If you're hiring somebody or willing to hire people that have worked with or have had maybe some mental health challenges like anxiety, A lot of people that don't necessarily identify as a person with a disability per se really struggle when it's a brand new environment. Hey Tim, going for that interview and you're one person against two or three. It seems like it's you against them, right? There's three people interviewing you. They're asking you all these bizarre questions and you're expected to just let this stuff roll off your tongue. Those are anxiety creating situations. So, Tim Reitsma (25:52) Mm -hmm.
Nate (26:10) If you have a bunch of boilerplate questions that you ask applicants, consider providing them ahead of time. What's wrong with that? And whether you ask for the answers in writing ahead of time, so that whoever's gonna be interviewing them can review them, or at least the individual that's being asked those questions can review them and feel comfortable with what they're gonna say, what a...
What a great way to provide an opportunity for a person that's struggling with an anxious situation in a job interview as an exam.
Tim Reitsma (26:49) there's a couple quote unquote free accommodation things that we could be doing right from the start of that employee life cycle. And as an individual like myself, I live with, as most people listening to this know, I live with Crohn's disease. So when I was interviewing for jobs, people were asking me what kind of accommodation I needed and whether it was in person or not, I disclosed, well, I just...
Nate (26:55) Right?
Yeah.
Tim Reitsma (27:18) If it was in person, it's, hey, well, I'm just wondering where your washroom is because, you know, I live with something and I may need to run to use the washroom. That has caught people off guard, but I would say 99 % it was met with compassion. And I hope that it, you know, that didn't lead to losing a job or a job opportunity, but, and if it did, I wouldn't want to work there anyways. So be it, but just being able to provide that assurance upfront and...
of somebody I met recently, she shared with me, HR professional, she shared with me what she sends to candidates for that interview process. And she sends them a pre -interview welcome deck, a presentation. And part of that was accommodations and a slide on accommodations and example accommodations that they provided and kind of easing the mind of a candidate. So it's very, very simple to do just from the beginning stages, isn't it?
Nate (28:13) Yeah. Well, and you know what's interesting about that is what opportunities are you missing out on as an employer because somebody bombed an interview? I can tell you I've had conversations with many people over the years that in absolute dismay told me how the interview just went terribly. And they weren't even somebody that necessarily struggled per se.
with anxiety or any of those things, it just didn't go well. They were off that day. Maybe the first couple questions just put them in a state that the rest of it didn't flow well. Well, who lost out there? Well, certainly the candidate that walked out of there and didn't get the job, but maybe the employer did too, just because they didn't create this environment for somebody to succeed. Isn't that interesting? Once they get hired, an employer, should do everything they can to create an environment for the individual to succeed. Well, what about creating an environment that gives the individual every opportunity to get the job in whatever fashion that takes? You know, especially when most of our communications these days between each other as humans is what Tim? Email, Slack, text, right? The company, whatever communication portal. So, Tim Reitsma (29:26) Yeah.
Nate (29:40) Why wouldn't you want to give them these questions in advance in writing so they could respond in writing or at least know what's going on? That's how the rest of the deal is going to go anyways, right? In the next five years, how many in -person, face -to -face meetings are you going to have with this individual? It's kind of counterintuitive, if you will, right?
Tim Reitsma (29:59) Yeah. I just thinking of an individual listening to this and just shaking their head and just going, I agree. Like how, how strange is this process that we've created? you know, it's like the speed dating, right? It's like, I'm going to get to know you over two, one hour conversations, and then you're going to spend the next five years at my organization. And, and so, you know, if you have that, that determination, maybe you're listening to this and you have a disability or living with, with a condition.
even just ask, you know, hey, what's sort of accommodation, what's your accommodation process in the interview look like? And, you know, legally, nobody could discriminate against you because you've asked. Maybe you don't even have a disability or a condition and you just want to ask that question because your friend has struggled and you want to advocate on their behalf. Maybe we make that a norm in the interview process and.
whether you have a condition or not. And employers have so many opportunities to create a safe and trusting place. Like you mentioned earlier on, Nate, was have your leadership team, have your CEO. If they live with something, maybe it's opportunity to step out of that fear yourself or themselves and talk about what they live with. Because maybe they have an accommodation in the workplace.
put that on your careers page. And if you're an individual, I get it, it's hard, right? You don't know if you want to disclose, especially on that front end in that interview, because you don't know who's on the opposite side. You don't know what bias they're going to be bringing to the interview. For somebody who's sitting there being interviewed, what do you tell someone who's got all these questions and fears going in their mind?
Nate (31:47) Yeah.
Yeah, well, first of all, for somebody on the other end of this podcast that's listening and already had several defeats in this arena, okay, I respect where you're coming from.
There's also, if one out of four or one out of five people in Canada have a disability, Tim, isn't there also a high likelihood that the person that's at the other end of the conversation in the interview room is a person with a disability, is a person with a barrier, lives with a person that has a disability or barrier, has a loved one that has a disability? So, you know, assuming. What happens when we assume? Right, Tim, we all know how that conversation goes.
So easy for me to say, but I believe that's why it's so important to open that conversation. You know, we hear about all the young people in the last decade and moving forward how they do a much better job than people my age. I just turned 60 last December. They do a much better job interviewing the employer to see if that's a place they wanna spend the next five or 10 years and making sure that...
you know, they're socially, the employer is socially responsible and they care about them as an individual and they'll allow them to have work -life balance. Well, part of that discussion is, this discussion is, will you hire my friend that wears a hijab? Will you hire my friend that has a disability? What is your policy on equity? Do you have pay transparency? These are all the conversations that the younger people are having today. And you know what it's doing, Tim? It's making these.
these organizations sit up and pay attention to the importance of all of this stuff. Reconciliation with their First Nations, working with people with disabilities, the BIPOC conversation, all of it, it's all valuable and the better organizations are the ones leading, they're leading with that conversation to attract employers or employees. So I think, I've been again, I'm in year 10.
I think it's getting better out there, but like anything, it's not up and to the right. You know what you want your stock portfolio to do, right? Up and to the right. It's not a linear path. It's filled with up and down situations, especially from an individual perspective. You know, that person with a disability that's listening to this, that's employed and they overcome those, they overcame those hurdles and they found a good employer, that's great.
But if they lost their job next month, they'd have to start all over again. Now they might have some good ammunition to go into those conversations and it's a better world than it was 10 years ago, but you still get to find the right people to have those conversations with and they're not always gonna be receptive. But I think there's a better chance today than there's ever been that they've crossed that bridge with these conversations of.
accommodations and barriers and the value of their number one asset, they keep saying is us. So leverage that.
Tim Reitsma (35:14) Leverage that, that's so good. And that stat one in four, I think was the latest stat that I saw in Canada and the US. One in four of us live with something, would live with a disability condition. And I know that word disability is all encompassing of disease and illness. And I was reading another study, I'm gonna get the number wrong, but it was in the 70 plus percent of people in the workforce identify as a caregiver. Maybe it's for a child or somebody elderly or somebody with a disability.
So just think of that. And as an individual, as I'm doing this advocacy work, I've used that even at conferences I go to is just look around, one in four of us live with something. But from a job seeker or an individual in a workplace who needs an accommodation or is thinking, should I disclose because it's affecting my performance? Just think of that stat. One in four people in this workplace on average live with some.
And if we look around, we don't see a physical disability, we don't see something visible. It's something not apparent. And have they disclosed and maybe they're afraid to disclose. But just think if we created workplaces that people truly want to belong to, yeah, think of that talent pool that we're missing out on. And sometimes it...
we always say it starts with the leadership. We need to engage that leadership to drive that conversation. But maybe three or four of your colleagues get together and say, you know what, we're going to start an employee resource group and we're going to support people with disabilities. That's going to catch the attention very quick of the leadership team, wouldn't it?
Nate (36:55) Yeah. And, and, and, you know, I was just at a, I was at an event, last week with the greater Vancouver board of trade. And that, that was part of the conversation is.
have that discussion with leadership, have that discussion if you wanted a resource group, an employee resource group for people with disabilities or whatever the group is. But do it and make a difference. Get educated about some of the important topics. Share the education, the knowledge that you learn with the people that need to learn it, which is...
maybe the senior HR, the junior HR person that's helping you create this. Maybe it's that executive vice president, maybe it's the owner of a small to medium sized business that cares about this. And then you might discover they care for a reason you had no idea. They struggle with something. They have a family member that struggles with something. What I've seen so many times, especially in our work is social impact organizations and nonprofits.
You meet these people that are really dedicated to the cause and you find out why, because it is a daughter, it's a son, it's a brother, it's a sister, it's a close connection, it's a high school friend and they learn through that relationship how to value and the value of everybody has incredible value and how some of us need help on the advocacy side on changing the mindsets.
of people that maybe haven't experienced it, maybe some don't care, maybe some just need the education. I think there's all of that out there. It'd be foolish for you and I to sit here and think that everybody cares. They don't all care. But those that don't have an opinion and just need to be educated, those are the people we've got to find and share this information with and make an impact on their thought process in this discussion.
Tim Reitsma (39:01) Well, you've even to this conversation of just kind of rewired my thought process from that workplace perspective to an individual perspective on there's a lot of us that live with something and we don't need to do it alone. We don't need to, whether it's at work or with our friends or family, there's power in that community, power in not having to hide what makes us, as I say, our version of normal, you know?
What I live with is it's my normal right now. This is who I am. And there's, and maybe again, somebody's listening to this and it's like, yeah, just maybe forward it on or forward the work that Nate does at Neil Squire onto your employer and just ask that question. Hey, you know, can you show me our, what we're doing to educate our leaders on disability inclusion? Or, and if it's nothing, let's just start that conversation. It doesn't have to be a big blown out process and policies and.
Nate (39:30) Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Tim Reitsma (39:59) and training modules, let's just have that conversation.
Nate (40:04) 100%. And, you know, there's a lot of ways to do it. And one of the ways to do it, especially from a business metrics perspective, there's a ton of great data out there, Tim, about the value in hiring people with disabilities and what they bring to the table. You know, we talk about diversity all the time and the diversity of thought. Well, people with disabilities have some diverse thought out there. And one of the things is...
people with disabilities, our clients that have a physical barrier to the world that isn't built for them. The world isn't built for people with disabilities, right Tim? It still isn't. They tend to be problem solvers. They tend to be out of the box thinkers. They tend to not give up so easy because if they did, well, they'd be in a different reality. They tend to be people that are loyal when they find a good job. They tend to work really hard. And you know what? There's tons of studies to back that up.
Tim Reitsma (40:39) Mm -hmm.
Nate (41:00) They have a higher show up at work rate than us non -disabled people or equal or greater than. There's a really great study for people that know Walgreens, especially you American listeners. Walgreens in the States, look up the Randy Lewis story about Walgreens and how he created these massive distribution centers with thousands of employees and the two top performing centers.
were the two that he ran and 10 to 15 % of the workers in those facilities, and these are massive, these are hundreds of thousands of square feet facilities with forklifts and all sorts of machinery and 10 to 15 % of their workforce were either people with diverse, neurodiverse disabilities, physical disabilities and cognitive barriers that they found employment where they focused on the person's abilities as opposed to their disabilities. And these two business units were some of the highest performing of all the Walgreens distribution centers in the States. They had higher attendance, they had less sick leave, they had less off time due to injury. Their safety record was better. All of it just turned the whole conversation on its head because it isn't about charity, right Tim?
The business, the work has to get done. The business have to make money. They have to be profitable for all this to work. It works. And there's tons of studies out there to back that up.
Tim Reitsma (42:34) the numbers, the studies all show that somebody with a disability, they stay longer, their retention rate is higher. So think of that, think of like the cost savings just on having to train people and often outperform somebody who does not identify as somebody who has a disability. And the data is there and I'm gonna link it in the show notes. So if you're looking for...
some data, some ammunition, so to speak, maybe to send to an employer, send to your boss. It's like, hey, we need to have this conversation. Or, you know, it's just a good thing to do. There's also a great course through the SHRM, the HR Association in the US about disability and disability inclusion. It's free. I took it just to educate myself and it was just eye -opening. The data is there and it supports. So whether you are an employer, maybe you're an employee, maybe you...
maybe you don't even identify as somebody with a disability, educate ourselves. That's how we drive social change and is through that piece of education. And that's why I love the work that you're doing, Nate, at Neil Squire. And as I look to wrap up, I mean, there's so many good takeaways out of this episode. And even jokingly, before we hit record, I was like, we could record for two hours, but I know maybe we'll have to record another one. But I ask this, and I think we already touched on this, so.
Nate (43:50) Probably could, Tim.
Let's do it.
Tim Reitsma (43:56) Two questions before we wrap up is, how will we end the stigma of specifically invisible conditions, whether it's in work or school or society?
Nate (44:05) I guess the negative side of me will say it'll never end and that's why the work is never done. However, you know what gives me great confidence is the younger generation because they're doing a way better job than people of my age did, Tim. When we were in school, I think we were a lot more ignorant to all that. When I was in school, people with disabilities, they were put somewhere else. Now they're in class with the kids.
And you know what the most important part of that is? Is that it shows, in my opinion, it shows the kids that are non -disabled that other than the barrier this child's dealing with, they're a kid just like them. And they have a lot of same dreams and aspirations that they do. It also shows them how they're able to overcome their barrier to do what they do, whether it be the learning or the schoolwork or the activities. And...
And I think it doesn't take very long. And all of a sudden the non -disabled kids realize, well, he's just like me or she's just like me or they are just like us. And once somebody, once that light bulb goes on for us as kids, moving on through their life, they're gonna be employers, they're gonna be managers, they're gonna be hires and they're gonna go, well.
That's not a barrier in my organization. In fact, what I learned about this kid that I was in school with is he worked harder than anybody did. Don't I want that in my organization? So I guess, Tim, I guess you had just have to have some faith because all these changes are generational, aren't they? And it takes time. It takes time for that mindset to evolve. And I believe it is. I honestly, honestly believe.
It is. And we have to be focused on, you know, we talk about being focused on people over profits. But in this case, hiring people with disabilities is going to improve your profit. So why don't you focus on profit and hire more people with disabilities and don't be surprised when it works, you know?
Tim Reitsma (46:20) I love that. That's so good. I just said this to a few people is I just imagine a world where if my kids are struggling with something that, you know, if they disclose, they share with their friends or their teachers and their friends go, yeah, thanks for trusting me with that. Hey, do you want to go do this or, that affects your ability to do this. Hey, what do you want to do? And that's it. And there's no exclusion. It's just, it's just, they're normal. And...
One question I know we've touched a lot on this and see if we can sum it up succinctly is what is the one thing or one thing someone can do to advocate for themselves?
Nate (47:00) Well, that's a loaded question. I would say, I would say if it's in a work related situation, whether you're going for the job or you've already got the job, is to disclose the tools you need to be as at or close to 100 % as you can. And if possible, come with the solution. Whether it's a program funded in your area, whether it's...
an idea of the tool that you think will help based on research that you did, people you've talked to. If that's one thing you could do, you certainly lower the barrier for the employer when you do that. Because there's tons of great information out there. You know, it's always amazing, hey Tim, we have more information in our hand than generations before us ever had in a wall full of books. Yet people are always asking questions that are like, You could find out the answer for that if you just ask somebody. So come armed with information would be, I think, the best way to advocate for yourselves. And then when you know better, do better. And then share that. Share that experience from the top of the rooftops, right? About how it went, what you learned in the process. And maybe that'll benefit somebody else in your community or, you know, connected to your community through the power of social media, right?
Tim Reitsma (48:32) Yeah, that's such a great piece of advice on helping someone who might be struggling to advocate for themselves. And there's great resources out there. There's in the US, there's AskJan .org, there's the Canadian Disability Act and lots of accommodation opportunities or things on there. There's a great company out of the US called Disco .com. You can, if you need an accommodation.
Nate (48:44) Yeah?
Tim Reitsma (48:55) and are afraid to ask, you can actually just fill a little form on Disclo and what they do is they'll send your employer an email saying, someone in your organization is asking about accommodations and fully anonymous. It's such a cool tool. There's great job boards out there. There's even on invisiblecondition .com, there's a list of over 200 invisible conditions and example accommodations. So arm yourself.
Nate (49:08) Didn't know that.
Tim Reitsma (49:21) get educated yourself and what do you need to do to perform at 100 %? And if you don't know, that's okay. But recognize that you don't know and even provide that to whoever you're talking to. Nate, pleasure to connect again as always. If someone wants to learn more about Neil Squire, about the work that you do, where can they find you?
Nate (49:42) No, thanks for asking, Tim. They can find me. I noticed I didn't put my last name on there. I didn't omit it, purposely, folks. I guess I wasn't thinking. You can certainly find me on LinkedIn, Nate Toevs. T -O -E -V -S is my last name. I work for Neil Squire or Neil Squire Society. Every Wednesday, 12 to 12, 1230 to 1 p Pacific Standard Time, or most Wednesdays, I should say, I run a webinar on that talks a little bit about the Neil Squire work that we do.
and then most specifically about the assistive technology funding we have in British Columbia. So it's from 1230 to 1 p most Wednesdays. It's on Zoom and you can register at neilsquire .ca under get involved or you can send me an email, nate, T, N -A -T -E -T at neilsquire .ca and be happy to answer any questions or connect you with somebody that I think that can help if.
if maybe I'm not the right person to speak to. But, you know, we're all in this together. I've found in my nine plus years, the community is pulling, they're pulling in the right direction. And there are a lot of people out there that care. And you just gotta find that, you just gotta use your voice or use whatever technology you need to create your voice if that's what's needed in your situation.
But there's people out there to help, there really is.
Tim Reitsma (51:13) Great place to end on Nate. And for those who are listening, I'll have all the links in the show notes, head to invisiblecondition .com or wherever you get your podcasts and I'll have all those links there. And I still need to check out one of your Wednesday webinars. So that's a good reminder. I'm gonna go find one and sign up. And for those who are listening, if you have comments, questions, feedback, just reach out. As we talk about building community, not doing this on your own, this disability journey, let me know how I can support you. Head to invisiblecondition .com.
Nate (51:26) That'd be great, Tim. Yeah.
Tim Reitsma (51:43) to condition .com and the contact tab there and I'm happy to connect with you and I've connected now with dozens, probably hundreds now of people over the last six months. If you like this episode or any other episode, please consider subscribing, send it to all your friends and family, your workplaces, whatever you need. If you don't wanna send it to your boss, your HR team, but you know they need to hear it.
Let me know, I'm happy to send an email on your behalf without mentioning your name. Whatever we gotta do to create disability inclusion in this world, to create a place where we can all show up as our version of normal. So with that, Nate, thanks for coming on and I hope you have a good one.
Nate (52:25) Thanks, Tim, you're doing wonderful work. This is making a difference without question. Thank you. Thank you for having me today. Yeah, likewise.
Tim Reitsma (52:30) I appreciate you bud. Yeah. Thanks.
