Ep: 007 - Life after cancer: Living in the moment.
Chris Ho - Bio
Chris Ho is a certified leadership coach and consultant with FranklinCovey along with his own practice at ConsciousStudio.ca focused on leadership, talent and culture development.
Motivated by his 15 + years of leadership experience combined with his personal health challenges, Chris’s mission is to help inspire, connect and support people within organizations to achieve the results they are looking for.
Chris's personal experiences as a 2-time testicular cancer survivor and past caregiver to his late father have shown him that perspective is everything, especially when it comes to realizing your potential while making the most of today.
Within his community, Chris proudly volunteers with the BC Cancer Agency and Foundation whose goal is to improve cancer experience between patients, caregivers and care workers. Chris is also passionate about volunteering with NextGenMen, an organization focused on helping men have healthy conversations about masculinity and Movember and its awareness for men's mental and physical health.
Chris can be found living in the moment with his wife Maggie, their two boys Caden and Liam and their fur babies Sam and Zoe in the River District in Vancouver BC.
Contact Links:
Website - The Conscious Studio
LinkedIn - Chris Ho
Resources:
Meditation and Mindfulness Resources: Headspace
Show Notes
Embracing Vulnerability and Openness: The conversation starts with Chris Ho sharing his personal journey of living with cancer, an invisible condition. He emphasizes the importance of openness and vulnerability, highlighting the powerful impact of sharing personal stories. This section underlines the value of vulnerability, not just for personal healing but also for inspiring and giving others the courage to share their own experiences. Chris's story serves as a reminder of the strength found in vulnerability.
The Power of Support and Compassion: Tim Reitsma and Chris Ho discuss the critical role of support and compassion in navigating life's challenges, particularly when dealing with an invisible condition. They explore how empathy and understanding from others, especially in the workplace, can create a safe space for sharing and coping. Chris's experience with his leader, Rob Scott, exemplifies the positive impact that empathetic leadership can have on individuals going through tough times.
Living in the Moment and Self-Care: We delve into the concept of living in the moment, stressing the significance of mindfulness and self-awareness in overcoming life’s adversities. Chris shares insights on the practices that help him stay present, such as meditation, nature walks, and journaling. This part of the conversation highlights practical tools and approaches that individuals can use to maintain mental well-being and navigate their journey with an invisible condition.
Encouragement for Sharing and Overcoming Challenges: The discussion culminates with both speakers offering encouragement to listeners who might be facing their own challenges but are hesitant to share. They stress the importance of taking small steps towards openness and seeking support. Chris’s advice to focus on the immediate, rather than worrying about the distant future, serves as a powerful message for those struggling to find their way through difficult times.
Episode Highlights
In the fall of 2013, regular routine shower and bathing myself, grabbed some soap, you know, and started bathing myself down there. And I felt this little small little lump in one of my testicles. I was like, oh, that's a little strange.
After a quick examination, he's like, oh, that's cancer. And I still remember it because I fell back and he had to kind of catch me.
I think in society, we've got so much emphasis of work and putting the hours in and almost like self-sacrifice, the glory of 80 hours a week, I didn't eat lunch and we glorify that too much. And unfortunately, a consequence of that is that you have people like us or other people that you don't see what's going on and you create a really negative effect for people not wanting to share in Abraham. It's not a safe place to do so, right? And I still remember after my second surgery, when I told my leader at the time that I got to take some significant time off. And I still remember not just what he said, but the comfort of like, you know, he was empathetic. He told me to go home. He told me anything that I need, I can reach out to him. And he said, don't even involve HR. Don't even worry about the policies. He's like, we'll figure this out. Go home and take care of yourself.
One of the things I realized through this experience is that, and men are very, very guilty of this, as you know, right? This whole notion of boys don't cry, just suck it up, just get through it, don't whine, right? Or my favorite one now is like, don't you have the balls? Or like, well, actually I don't. So, but equally just as brave and courageous and it's kind of taking that narrative and turning it upside down.
There's a growing thought sometimes that things need to fit in a box, right? We should use LinkedIn to only share about work things, or you should share certain things on Facebook, or you shouldn't share these things in the workplace. This is for HR, or, you know, we shouldn't discuss these things. And whoever said that you had to? What are these guidelines? What are these boxes, these permission boxes? Who created them? And why are we adhering to them? And the same thing with this sharing and asking for permission. Whoever said that we shouldn't share? Whoever said this is an HR issue? This is a human issue, fundamentally a human issue. So if you're human, guess what? You've got permission to share.
For anyone out there, start small. Just really start small, right? Maybe tell someone it's not okay. Maybe leave it at that. It might be something else, right? But start really small. If you're not getting the feedback, if you're not getting the reaction that you might be looking for, it's not because of you. It's not because of you. Go to someone else. It's them, not you, right? Because you do have progression.
Transcript
Tim Reitsma
Chris, I'm really excited for you joining the Invisible Condition podcast. You've got an amazing story and one that, for those who know you are just so inspired and for those who are going to know you through this podcast are going to be inspired. So thanks for joining me.
Chris Ho
Yeah, no problem. I'm excited to chat.
Tim Reitsma
you know, first thing that caught my eye was, I thought it was your virtual background. And this is completely unscripted, but when you walked away to grab some water and it says, think outside the box on your door. So for whoever's listening to this, trust me, it says that whoever may be watching the video, but I don't know what makes that saying something so important for you to put on your wall.
Chris Ho
Yeah, yeah. So funny story, my lovely partner Maggie is the one that got it. I had to put it on. Those things are very hard to put on, first of all, those decals. And she's always got the knack of knowing what's on my mind. But yeah, thinking out of the box, I think we hear that all the time in the work sense. And it means a lot for me personally in that kind of personal side of things, right? I think we're all kind of programmed some ways.
Tim Reitsma
Ha ha.
Chris Ho
through a bunch of reasons, how we grew up, society, on how to think a certain way. And some of that kind of helps us and some of it doesn't, right? So that's a good reminder for us to kind of just check and see where those thoughts are.
Tim Reitsma
I love that. And I think it relates really well to invisible condition and, you know, are saying here is to talk about unusually normal things. And when we talk about just the things, the everyday things, that's kind of inside that box, but the unusual things, you know, sharing just before hitting recording that I was reading a stat that 15% of the global population lives with something, uh, lives with a disability and a large percentage of those are invisible. And so your story is phenomenal.
you've got a compelling story. I don't want to put words in your mouth. I would just love to invite you to share, share your story of living with an invisible condition.
Chris Ho
Yeah, I appreciate that Tim. I guess I'll start, you know, growing up was fine for me, right? In a regular kind of family, my health was great, family was great, and it really kind of all started in the fall of 2013, regular routine shower and bathing myself, grabbed some soap, you know, and started bathing myself down there. And I felt this little small little lump in one of my testicles. I was like, oh, that's a little strange. So I took that thought and coincidentally I had just actually found a family doctor maybe six months prior to that. So I had no family doctor. I'm about 32 years old around this time, so early 30s, no family doctor. And as often the case, my partner, Maggie at the time,
And was like, hey, you should have a family doctor. This is kind of important. So, okay, I did. And so I had a family doctor. I felt a lump. I was like, oh, this is intriguing. I should probably get this checked out with my new found doctor that I had. And went in. He obviously examined me and he was like, oh, you know, that's probably just a cyst. It's probably just a cyst. I was like, okay. He said, but let's just get it checked out just in case, right? So.
Not knowing much about health, not knowing much about anything at that point, I was like, okay, it's probably just a cyst, let's just follow this path. Had the ultrasound, of course the ultrasound technician, they are not allowed to tell you of what they found. So they're like, oh, we're going to have to get this to the doctor. Got the results, my family doctor calls me back and said, hey, you know what, we're going to send you off to another doctor just to kind of check things out. In my mind, this is still a cyst, right?
And of course, Dr. Guga comes in place and like, oh, that's a cyst. And you know, I saw a little, some things about cancer, but I was like, let's just see where this goes. Went to see the urologist, oncologist, and that probably should have clued me in. That was my appointment. And Dr. So and I show up and immediately, he greets himself. We say hi. I pull down my pants for examination and in like five seconds.
after a quick examination, he's like, oh, that's cancer. And I still remember it because I fell back and he had to kind of catch me. And it's funny because I already, I was already researching Dr. Google what this could be, right, but then you put it in your mind, like, that's probably not, it's probably not. And then he had to catch me and, you know, he told me it's most likely to stick with cancer. And next thing I knew, I was sitting.
you know, 10 minutes later, you saw this booking clerk, and they're asking me, like, what's your availability for the next two weeks or month? We're gonna go for surgery. And I'm like, whoa, whoa. I'm like, I have to go back to work. I just, you know, I'm gonna tell my partner, who I just proposed to, we were like six months before that. So, as you can imagine, like, just thoughts crashing down. I'm booking employment, I'm thinking about all these things. I remember just walking back, I lived in downtown Vancouver the time I walked.
over from the Diamond Center across the Canby Bridge. I'm just like, all these things you think about just don't matter anymore. I was in sales, nothing mattered anymore, work, all that stuff. So, came home, had to tell Maggie, which was obviously very challenging. And yeah, I had my first surgery, fall of October, great experience, successful. Had a follow-up CT scan once I was removed.
And how often do we get CT scans? Very rare. Got it done and then I get a call from my doctor and says, hey, you gotta come back, we found something. And I was like, okay. And he said that we found a 10 centimeter lump on your right adrenal gland. This was Christmas of 2013. So you gotta come in, it's pretty nasty. And I asked them, and at this time about my partner, I said, well, what's gonna happen if I don't get this out of me? And he just flat out said, it's like, you're going to die. I was like, okay, okay. So it was Christmas 2013. You know, talked to the doctor, like, it's pretty yucky looking. You're gonna lose your right adrenal gland, probably your right kidney, and probably parts of your liver as well. And I was like, okay, that's okay. So fast forward, I had my surgery from my right adrenal gland.
Valentine's Day 2014, what a better day to celebrate love than at Vancouver General Hospital. I had the surgery, I woke up and I immediately asked whoever was there, I was like, did you keep my kidney, did you keep my liver? And they're like, yes we did. We managed to take the adrenal gland out and the tumor. And I was like, amazing, amazing. I healed up.
A few days in the hospital I left and then I had a great call from my doctor, you know, two months after that, and said, hey, we got the lab results back from that tumor. And luckily that tumor that we took out is actually was benign. So I was really happy about that. Not so happy about the surgery, but hey, you know, at the moment that was the best decision we could have made, right? So everything was great at that point. That's 2014. And uh...
My story kind of continues. Kind of takes a little bit of tangent to our first born. Well, sorry, my dad in 2016 gave me a call and I knew something was up and he told me to come over home. I got home and he's staring at the wall of his living room and just immediately starts to cry. It was the first time I ever saw my dad cry. And he told me that he had stage four lung cancer.
and he's already been getting radiation already. And that took obviously a step back, but funny enough, he told me that news. I knew something was up. I go home that evening, and Maggie kind of knows that something was wrong as well. I came home that evening, and it was the same day that she told me she was pregnant with her firstborn. So I had the circle of life playing in the background during that news of all that. But yeah, my dad fought in a courageous battle for the next two years, chemo, radiation, immunotherapy, and luckily he stayed alive long enough to see our firstborn kid being born in 2017. So I was very happy to see that. And then my journey continues. I have one testicle left. Things are humming along. And another routine checkup.
Great doctor said, hey, we should probably check out your other testicle. I was like, okay, sure. Got that checked out the fall of 2019. They said there's a tumor on your remaining testicle. I was like, that can't be, that can't be. I was almost past the five-year cancer mark of being clear, so to speak. And at the time, Maggie and I were thinking about trying for another. And obviously that was a bump in the road. Had another surgery in...
January 2020, before that I put some sperm into the All of Fertility Clinic, had my testicle removed January 2020 right before COVID and that was successful as well. So now I'm on full testosterone replacement, full medication, the healing was great and kind of round up the story in 2021 and we thought, hey, why don't we try this funny IVF thing.
And through the courage of my wife during that time, during COVID time, we were really fortunate to have our second son being born as well, later in 2021.
Tim Reitsma
Wow, well, Chris, what a vulnerable share. And that's one thing I appreciate about you is your openness to share your journey, because it's a very private one. And often living with an invisible condition is quite private. And I just wanna just commend you and your partner, Maggie, for staying by your side through this journey.
Chris Ho
Yeah.
Tim Reitsma
finding out you've got cancer and staying with you and two kids later and you're living a great healthy life. So thanks for sharing. First off, just thank you for your openness.
Chris Ho
Yeah. No, no problem, Tim. It wasn't always easy, but it's, you know, it's helpful for me to share as well.
Tim Reitsma
Absolutely. There's some healing as well. At least I find not hiding behind this facade of my normal. What people look at you and say, well, are you sure you're sick or are you, you look healthy and yet you're battling inside.
Chris Ho
Good.
Great. Yeah, yeah, totally.
Tim Reitsma
I'm really curious back to your first diagnosis. You said you were sitting there, you're walking back to the office and thinking, how can this be? I gotta go back to work. What I have found through this project is people are afraid to share. And, you know, workplaces don't require you to share. They don't need to know what's going on. If it is affecting work, then, you know, there's that level of, hey, I need to ask for accommodation.
Chris Ho
Yeah.
Tim Reitsma
or whatnot, but at what point did you decide, yeah, I need to share this with, uh, with my workplace.
Chris Ho
Mm-hmm. Yeah, well, I shared it quite early in the process, but I think all the things that you just said really rang home because you're trying to guess what they're thinking. You're thinking about your obligations, your responsibilities, and even kind of guilt on our side of things, right? I think in society, we've got so much emphasis of work and putting the hours in and almost like self sacrifice, the glory of 80 hours a week, I didn't eat lunch and we glorify that too much. And unfortunately, a consequence of that is that you have people like us or other people that you don't see what's going on and you create a really negative effect for people not wanting to share in Abraham. It's not a safe place to do so, right? And I still remember after my second surgery, when I told my leader at the time that I got to take some significant time off. And I still remember not just what he said, but the comfort of like, you know, he was empathetic. He told me to go home. He told me anything that I need, I can reach out to him. And he said, don't even involve HR. Don't even worry about the policies. He's like, we'll figure this out. Go home and take care of yourself. And his name's Rob Scott. And he's one of the great leaders and mentors I still think about and a great friend of mine. But the way he reached out and supported me through all that meant all the difference and gave me permission to share these things.
Tim Reitsma
I think that's so key, permission to share. And if you're a leader listening to this, maybe pause a minute and think about your team and think about the fact that have you give them, have you given them permission to share? And in order to have permission to share, there's gotta be a deep level of trust and respect there for sure. And...
Chris Ho
Yeah.
Tim Reitsma
And so Rob Scott, big shout out to him, who are creating that environment because there's, I know managers, I've heard stories from people who've shared their story and leaders don't believe them, or leaders go, are you sure? Or leaders go, well, we don't have a policy here to support you, so maybe you wanna consider finding another job with better benefits. Like there are those leaders out there. And so, yeah.
Chris Ho
Thank you.
Chris Ho
Yeah there are. When I think about or hear about leaders like that, my immediate thoughts are, I feel like they would regret those things in the future. I feel like some leaders are really caught into the moment of the pressures of the job, the pressures of stakeholders, whoever those are, pressures from all sorts of other things. I'm empathetic to that because they have their own pressures.
Chris Ho
But when someone comes to you like that, or when someone's been really, really vulnerable in that moment, it's kind of like that time to take off the leader hat and put on the human hat. Because what if that was your family member? What if that was you? What if that was a loved one? You would want and expect the same type of compassion and empathy. Sometimes I think we get so lost in these unconscious roles that we probably say and do things that we regret years and years later.
Tim Reitsma
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I heard a story, um, someone who shared with me that, you know, they live with diabetes here, actually just on the podcast and a student in a high school student and listen to diabetes and was the sugars were wildly out of control. And so they shared that with their instructor and their instructor said, we all have bad days.
And so she went on to share about, you know, you know, I live with diabetes. And they said, but it's not invisible. I can see your sight. And so she calmly walked away and then came back to this teacher and this teacher profusely apologized because they were caught up in that moment of teacher hat versus human hat and they owned it. And that takes a lot of courage as well to own that mistake. I say things I regret.
Chris Ho
Yes.
Tim Reitsma
I know I said something today that I regret. And so we got to own that. And just because you may have put on that leader hat instead of the human hat, when somebody is opening up and sharing, doesn't mean you can't go back and say, hey, I apologize for this. Tell me more. I'm here to support you.
Chris Ho
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Tim Reitsma
And so, you know, you are very vocal about, um, you've survived cancer twice. You're involved in, in your community, um, extensively in cancer awareness as well. The cancer society here in British Columbia, Canada, what makes you want to share and to share openly and unvulnerably like what I, there's people who would say, okay, I survived, I'm good. It's it's in my past. But you're not that person. And I'm really curious about that.
Chris Ho
Yeah. I wasn't always a case. I think it was just over these years I realized sharing my story, it's really impactful because it gives, again, permission for other people to be vulnerable and permission for them to worry about things and give them permission to go check out their doctors, check out their health, or maybe at the forefront.
One of the things I realized through this experience is that, and men are very, very guilty of this, as you know, right? This whole notion of boys don't cry, just suck it up, just get through it, don't whine, right? Or my favorite one now is like, don't you have the balls? Or like, well, actually I don't. So, but equally just as brave and courageous and...
It's kind of taking that narrative and turning it upside down. And again, making that vulnerability be the new courageous and brave thing, right? Especially for men, like let's stop just going to the bars and talking about sports and cars and all that stuff. Let's take, talk about some real, real things. And I know men want to talk about it because once you start opening up, you can see them kind of like, Oh yeah, this is a deeper level connection. They might not have known about it, but again, it gives them that permission.
permission to open up. Because guess what? They're humans. They have emotions. They have health, right? And I think my thing for sharing right now is that you hear this all the time. Cancer survivors, anyone that's really suffered some type of tragic challenging thing, you kind of made them who they are and you wouldn't change a certain thing. And that's the same for me. I wouldn't change a single thing. But for me, it's like, you know, why do you have to have something like cancer?
diabetes or death or something tragic for you to really wake up and live a conscious life and live in the moment and follow the things that you want to do. And that's what it's taught me and I'm still a work in progress. I think that's the thing, we're all work in progress. You never really arrive. And what I feel about my life and the impact that I want to make, I want to share that with others so that they can make the impact in their lives.
Tim Reitsma
Permission, what a powerful word. It's a word I think we were taught at a young age to be a negative. You need permission to leave the classroom to use the washroom. You need permission to go to a friend's house. And it's designed for almost like a safety word. You need permission to do something. But as we grow older,
Chris Ho
Hmm.
Tim Reitsma
we still maybe subconsciously we live with that word we need permission to share. And what if we don't need permission to share? What if we don't need these platforms like LinkedIn or whatever social media? I think of LinkedIn because I think that's a platform full of inspiration versus
Tim Reitsma
We take that word permission, we crumple it up, throw it in the garbage and share vulnerably and share authentically. And it doesn't mean it always has to be negative and doom and gloom, but it could also be that positive side of what's happening in life and from a place of thankfulness or a place of praise. But that permission, that word is just really...
Chris Ho
Yeah.
Chris Ho
Me too.
Tim Reitsma
sticking with me and it's not sitting well with me right now.
Chris Ho
Yeah, yeah, I'm feeling it too. And then almost like going back to this kind of thinking out of the box thing, right? And speak at LinkedIn, you know, or even anything. There's a growing thought sometimes that things need to fit in a box, right? We should use LinkedIn to only share about work things, or you should share certain things on Facebook, or you shouldn't share these things in the workplace. This is for HR, or, you know, we shouldn't discuss these things. And whoever said that you had to? What are these guidelines? What are these boxes, these permission boxes? Who created them? And why are we adhering to them? And the same thing with this sharing and asking for permission. Whoever said that we shouldn't share? Whoever said this is an HR issue? This is a human issue, fundamentally a human issue. So if you're human, guess what? You've got permission to share.
Tim Reitsma
Yeah, it's the story stands out in my mind. Um, a real quick story is the, the phrase, how are you? And that's a phrase that really, you know, unless you, again, permission, unless you maybe have a good relationship with somebody, you're going to answer it honestly. And it's a, how are you good? How are you good? And you just move on. And my wife shared with somebody, somebody asked my wife, how are you? And she said, not good. And this person didn't know how to respond. Because I think it was just a platitude of like, hey, we're just passing. And they said, oh, I'm sorry to hear that. And then just kept walking. And then this next person said, how are you? And Tanya said, oh, I'm not doing well. And this person paused, put her hand on Tanya's shoulder and said, tell me what's going on. And so Tanya shared and this person just wrapped herself around Tanya with love and compassion. And
Chris Ho
Yes.
Tim Reitsma
Again, that word permission, right? If we have permission to actually share how we're doing, and maybe you are good. It's awesome. But if you're not, let's share that. Let's, let's create places of safety. And it starts with that level of vulnerability. Again, sharing your story so publicly, almost gives people that mission to share. And that and I've heard that time and time again through Invisible Condition is this has given me permission to go and share. And so, you know, people who are listening to your story, it's going to resonate with people, whether it's cancer or whether it's something else. And what encouragement do you do you have for people who are going through something but are afraid to share?
Chris Ho
Yeah, I think, you know, it's small steps. It's really small steps, right? For you, it might not be as publicly sharing as I am. Like, this, who you see today isn't just like an overnight thing. There are many journeys and fears and anxieties and growth. And it doesn't have to be such a huge leap, right? What you're seeing is 10 years of emotional growth in peaks and valleys. But for anyone out there, start small. Just really start small, right? Maybe tell someone it's not okay. Maybe leave it at that. It might be something else, right? But start really small. If you're not getting the feedback, if you're not getting the reaction that you might be looking for, it's not because of you. It's not because of you. Go to someone else. It's them, not you, right? Because you do have progression.
Tim and I are saying this today, you do have permission. And life on the other side of permission is joyful, it's happy, it's very fulfilling. And the old adage still stays, like you're not alone. You're not alone. Like you're sat early at 15%. I'm surprised, there's probably even higher than that. We're not perfect, we never were perfect. And the more you share, the more you open up, you'll find more commonality than differences.
Tim Reitsma
Yeah, more commonality than differences. And what you said resonates with me is if you're sharing with somebody, if somebody invites you to share and they don't have a positive reaction or don't have any reaction, it's not you, it's them. And you will find people who want to know more and then realize they don't want to know more. And that might cause you to shut down, but I strongly encourage you that there are people who genuinely care and want to connect. Absolutely. And so I'm curious about, you know, you've, you've lived with cancer, you survived cancer. How do you, how do you talk to your kids about what you've gone through? And.
You know, your partner has been by your side throughout all of this. I know you're raising two young men, young boys, and how do you parent them through your experience?
Chris Ho
Yeah, that's a great question. You know, one of the big things that we're trying to work on is that for them to just be themselves, I think most parents would say that, but to make emotions, again, have them permission to express their emotions. I wasn't able to, I refrain. It wasn't as open as we were trying to parent today, talking about emotions and vulnerability. So we do that a lot. We get them to share and get them to feel what they're feeling.
and that's going to be okay, whatever they're feeling in the moment. No matter how much it drives us crazy in the moment, we want to make sure that it's okay. And the oldest one, Kaden, he sees my scars, I got three scars on my body, and we talk about bad cells, and we talk about my dad that's not here, and the bad cells that got in his body. So he's aware of these things, he's aware of how we take care of our body, but I think it's more important about how we take care of our mind.
and how we take care of ourselves and knowing ourself and being okay with ourself, whatever that might be. And they're gonna grow up the way that they're gonna grow up and you know we're gonna be those kind of bumper lanes along the way and if they grow up knowing that you know it's okay to be themselves and it's okay to talk about feelings and emotions and how to take care of themselves physically mentally then product.
Tim Reitsma
And I'm curious, I'd love to explore, just to go down this little rabbit hole a little bit, just on their minds. And I'm curious if you have any tools in your tool belt that you use with your kids, or I know you do coaching as well, or in your coaching practice, to help us kind of maybe reframe a situation or that mindset, maybe a negative mindset.
Chris Ho
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So one of the things that, you know, I meditate as often as I can, and he knows about it, and I'm slowly starting to kind of put these seeds about just meditation, or just having quiet alone time, right, at that young age. And he seems to be gravitating towards that. And I think, you know, talking to other parents, that there's no age too early to start introducing meditation, and really it is just mindfulness, right?
We have so many thoughts that cloud our brains. We never fact check those thoughts. We kind of take it for truth. So, you know, that's one of the practices we're trying to do is just get them to be really, really mindful and just kind of state what they're feeling and ask them if that's true, if that's how they really feel or where that thought is coming from. It's something that we're working on and I think, you know, by doing some of these inquisitive questions,
get them to grow up asking these questions for themselves as they continue to grow and develop and go through a bunch of different experiences.
Tim Reitsma
Yeah, I think, you know, whether you're raising children or maybe you're hearing this insight and it can be applied to yourself as well is, I love what you said, fact check the thoughts that are going through our minds. I am so guilty of this, Chris, where I have thoughts going around and if you don't check those thoughts, they all of a sudden become...
Chris Ho
Yeah, me too.
Tim Reitsma
truth and only truth in your own mind.
Chris Ho
Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, I've got that, I've had that feeling for a while since, as you know, in the news, we're always fact checking things and we have so many thoughts in our brains. Like, I'm guilty of it all the time. And we always do, we just take it for truth. Everything that comes to our mind, we take it for truth. So one of the things I try to do is, if I'm feeling anxious and worried, I kind of put myself in the third person, right? Like, oh, there's Chris trying to have those negative, anxious thoughts again.
Tim Reitsma
Mm-hmm.
Chris Ho
That's interesting, right? Just kind of observing it and having that detachment, you know, you could be that fact checker, so to speak. It adds a little bit of a different lens. I'm like, Hey, actually, I don't really have to take this thought. Like this isn't, I don't, I don't believe it. I don't believe it. This is fake news. Right. So.
Tim Reitsma
Yeah. Well, and I think it's, it's fitting with kind of the direction of, of where we wanted the conversation to go to is, you know, living in that moment, um, living after cancer and, you know, when you hear that living in the moment, what, what does that mean to you? And how do we encourage others to do? I think we've, it's been that theme throughout our whole conversation, but maybe we'll wrap up on that is living in that moment.
Chris Ho
Sure.
Tim Reitsma
Yeah, what comes to mind with you, for you?
Chris Ho
Yeah, I think you've heard that saying before, the present is called the present because it's a gift. And it's so easy for us to shoot ourselves in the future, go into the past. But living the moment for me is really just taking one step at a time, just kind of looking up, seeing all the things that you have, even if you're in a challenging moment right now. Just see what you're grateful for, what you have in front of you. And
Who knows what's going to happen tomorrow? Who knows if there will be a tomorrow? So knowing that has actually caused me to feel a lot more at ease because you're just worrying more today. And the next step, and the next step, and the next step. And that's powerful for me and that's kind of the philosophy I try to live by.
Tim Reitsma
Yeah, there's, there's a passage I live by is worry about tomorrow for tomorrow. Don't worry about tomorrow for tomorrow. Worry about itself. And it's like living in that moment because, you know, I don't know what's going to happen three hours from now. I don't know what's going to happen. You know, three weeks, three years, 30 years from now. I have no idea. And that might be daunting to think about right now as you're living in that moment. You might be living through crisis.
Chris Ho
Yeah.
Tim Reitsma
You might be living through pain and agony. Something that's worked really well for me is just taking that moment to reflect back and look back, look back at where you've come from to where you are now.
Chris Ho
Yeah, nice. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, that's a great exercise. That thought came to me as well. Just look back a month ago, two months ago, a year ago, and even going back in that time and say, hey, did you know that these things were gonna happen? No. And did you think those were the worst times of your life? Probably. But guess what, you got through it. You got through it.
Tim Reitsma
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm curious, you know, living in that moment, you're getting through it. What has been one or two things that have, you know, you talked about meditation that have that keep you in that in that moment, that living in the present?
Chris Ho
Yeah, for me I found is being outside, like nature, right? Just going for a quick walk and just notice the things, right? It doesn't have to be like the most serene place, right? But just go somewhere outside, get some oxygen, get moving. That's really helpful. And then just when you go for a walk, just kind of notice different things that you didn't notice before. You'd be very, very surprised how you kind of zoom back into the moment. That's really good.
The other thing is that I journal a lot. I kind of write my thoughts. That helps with that fact checking. You spit it down onto a journal, sooner or later those thoughts that don't serve you are gone and you have a focus on where you want to go. So all that kind of plays into it in the meditation. And again, trying to get you back into the present moment. That's all that matters.
Tim Reitsma
Mm-hmm. It's a couple of themes that are resonating with me is that conscious moment, living in that present, being aware of where you've come from to where you are now. And maybe where you came from was something amazing. Where you are now is something that's not. And so I want to also honor that, that feeling that you might be in that crisis moment.
Chris Ho
Yes.
Tim Reitsma
And where you might get to might not be the same as where you were. Uh, and it takes a lot of inner work. It takes a lot of practice to be okay with that. And I know you've, you've over, not maybe not overcome might not be the right word, but you've, you've experienced that journey and yeah, it's yeah.
Chris Ho
Yeah. I would say, you know, I'm conscious of that as well. You know, we're on the other side. Or are we? We never really arrive. But I'm conscious of that. You know, there's some people that are in the thick of things, right? It's challenging. It's like they're hearing us talk and like, yeah, that's great. Good for you. But in this moment, you know, I'm suffering. This is not a good place. And I want to acknowledge that as well. And
I'm not taking any of that away, we're not taking any of that away. And I would just say, you know, you will find the strength to get over whatever you need to. It might not be very apparent at all, right? That light under the tunnel is probably so dim and so far away that you're like, I don't buy into this. And I would just say, don't look at the...
the light at the end of the tunnel. Just look down and can you see your next step or your next appointment, your next treatment, your next conversation, your next meal? You know, that's what matters. And just focus on that, that's in front of you and the rest will take care of itself.
Tim Reitsma
Mm-hmm.
Tim Reitsma
Yeah, that, that word permission just ties so nicely in here. And yesterday I was feeling pretty low. I was, I was having a, um, uh, self pity day yesterday and I thought I got to get something done. So I wrote an article for, uh, it's posted on my, my website, invisiblecondition.com about resilience and it caused me to reflect back.
Chris Ho
Yeah.
Tim Reitsma
for the last year. My career had fundamentally shifted. Too sick for surgery. Everything that I thought was stable was gone. And now I reflect back, almost a year to the day where I sat in that doctor's office and he said, you are too sick for surgery. We need to get you healthy and thought, how is that possible? And my life looks fundamentally different than it did a year ago. So different. And if you are in that valley, in that low, you have permission to share. You have permission to reach out to myself, to people in your life. And you will find people who genuinely care and will support you in ways that you are not even thinking about. So, so give yourself permission to share. Yeah.
Chris Ho
And grace. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, permission, be open. And just work on the next thing. You're an inspiration to me. I remember all those conversations we had last year and to see you where you're at. I hope people can use that as inspiration as well. And we've all got values. We've all got values.
Tim Reitsma
Yeah, yeah, life is not linear. It's not a straight line. There's peaks and valleys and changes and corners and you name it. And so Chris, I just thank you for sharing so openly. You are an encouragement to me and I know you're an encouragement to so many others. You embrace your normal. We all have a different definition of what makes us normal and you've embraced it.
Chris Ho
Yeah.
Tim Reitsma
And I know this is going to reach somebody on a deeper level today. And so I thank you for, for sharing.
Chris Ho
Yeah, no problem Tim. And thank you for the work you're doing around this. This is deeply meaningful for a lot of folks and I know you're making a huge impact. So this is an honor for us to have this chat.
Tim Reitsma
Yeah, well, I appreciate that and I appreciate you. And for those who are listening, I just encourage you to reach out. I know many of you have reached out through LinkedIn and through the website and now through Instagram. It's a little overwhelming for me, but overwhelming on a positive because there's people who need support and we're here for you, I'm here for you. So if you resonate with this story, if you'd like to know more.
just reach out, head to invisiblecondition.com and drop me a note and also put in links to Chris's website as well. He's a phenomenal coach and if you need support, maybe there's opportunity there. So with that, Chris, thanks for coming on. And for those who are listening, if you know somebody who wants to hear this, who needs to hear this, selfishly just like and subscribe so we can meet more people and share it out as widely as you feel called to. So with that, I hope everyone has an amazing day.
