Ep: 011 - I’ve got so much OCD - Alicia Disantis
Alicia Disantis - Bio
Alicia Disantis is a traditional fine artist turned brand strategist, graphic designer, and writer. Her studio, 38th & Kip, helps companies who are doing good in the world connect with their customers through
powerful words and memorable images.
Alicia is inspired by retro design, Scandinavian minimalism, and bold colors. She is an active participant in the fine arts and exhibits her photos and illustrations in galleries across the United States.
In addition, Alicia sits on the Board of Directors for Red Rocks Community College and volunteers for a variety of arts programming in public schools.
Alicia received her BA in Design from The University of Toledo and her MA in Arts Management from Columbia College Chicago.
Contact Links:
Website - 38andkip.com
LinkedIn - Alicia Disantis
Instagram - @38andkip
Youtube - 33 & Kip
Resources:
Summary
In this episode, Alicia shares her journey of living with OCD and seeking a diagnosis. She discusses the lack of awareness and recognition of mental illness in the past, as well as the importance of sharing her story to break down stigmas. Alicia also addresses the misunderstanding of OCD and the misuse of the term 'OCD' in everyday language. She emphasizes the need for education and advocacy to end the stigma surrounding invisible conditions. Alicia encourages individuals who suspect they may have a mental illness to seek professional help and shares her hope for a more accepting and understanding society.
Takeaways
Seek professional help if you suspect you may have a mental illness.
Educate yourself and others about the realities of living with OCD and other invisible conditions.
Challenge and correct language that perpetuates stigma and misunderstanding.
Share your story to break down stigmas and create a more accepting and understanding society.
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction and Welcome
02:02 - Alicia's Journey of Seeking a Diagnosis
06:15 - Resistance to Medication
08:16 - Revealing the Diagnosis to Parents
10:14 - The Lack of Awareness and Recognition of Mental Illness in the Past
12:41 - The Importance of Sharing the Story
13:48 - Post-Pandemic Transparency and Breaking Down Stigmas
17:31 - The Misunderstanding of OCD
18:07 - The Definition of OCD
19:16 - Reactions to the Misuse of the Term 'OCD'
21:20 - Alicia's Experience with OCD
24:31 - The Cyclical Nature of OCD
26:18 - Ending the Stigma of Invisible Conditions
37:52 - Seeking Professional Help
40:12 - How to End the Stigma
Transcript
Tim Reitsma
Alicia, welcome to the Invisible Condition podcast. I'm excited about our conversation today. I think I say that for every episode because I'm just so excited. Today we're gonna be talking about OCD, but before we get there, welcome.
Alicia Disantis
Thank you so much for having me. And thanks to everyone listening. And I appreciate you having me on the show.
Tim Reitsma
Yeah, you know, we met through your podcast, through one of our mutual connections, Sean Bernstein, and he was on an episode talking about living a life as a hemophiliac, and that episode resonated with so many people. And I know this episode is going to draw a lot of attention and a lot of curiosity. So I've just hyping it up so people are going to continue listening. But...
Why don't you just tell us a little bit about yourself before we get into it.
Alicia Disantis
Yeah, absolutely. So I am a artist, designer, writer. I own a studio, uh, that does branding and graphic design marketing. I do a lot of consulting for, uh, nonprofits, uh, purpose-driven companies, technology, a lot of the more nuanced and very, I'd say niche or very delicate areas of industries that require a lot of the psychology behind messaging and behind buying behavior. So a lot of marketing strategy, but I'm also a practicing fine artist. So my background is in traditional fine arts.
I'm a photographer, illustrator. So it's a really weird mix of right brain, left brain, I call it. That some days I'll be drawing and other days I'll be writing a marketing strategy. And I'm so lucky to be doing what I do. I love it.
Tim Reitsma
I could feel the passion through the video or through the audio today. And, you know, I'm grateful that you've chosen to share your journey with an invisible condition, something that's not apparent with me and with our listeners. And when we were connecting weeks ago, just to flesh out the episode, you live with OCD. And I'm curious.
If you could, or I'd love to actually invite you to share a little bit about your journey of seeking a diagnosis and where you are today.
Alicia Disantis
Sure. So I'm a child of the nineties millennial. I was born in 1987. So for those who lived through that time, generalized anxiety disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, ADD, ADHD, all of those, these very relative, some more well-known than others, and we'll get to that. Mental illness were not very well known and were not very recognized in children, especially in the 90s. So it's very apparent to me now as an adult and after I've been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder and OCD that I had this probably from the moments as far back as I can remember. So I was labeled as sensitive.
Alicia Disantis
easily frightened, which is hilarious to me, easily frightened. Like, like he said, she's a sensitive child. So this is something I lived with and I coped with and it's even more interesting that we're having this conversation now because only just a few months ago did I share what I had been going through with my parents.
Tim Reitsma
What does that even mean? I'm easy. You're easily frightened. That's your diagnosis.
Alicia Disantis
So they didn't even have any, I mean, it was shocking to them when I told them what I had been experiencing as far back as I can remember. So, you know, I coped as well as I could. I led a very normal life. And about 10 years ago, so in my mid-20s, for whatever reason, you know, the serotonin dips, the chemicals change and it got really bad, really fast. So one of the things a lot of people think is that, and in some cases it's true that there would be a trigger that will set it off, but in other cases, you could literally just wake up one day and your body chemistry changes. And next thing you know, your anxiety is a thousand times worse than it was before. So that's what happened to me. I struggled, struggled for months and months to try to get it under control on my own. Didn't want to take medication because I didn't want to be one of those people that was taking medication. Went to behavioral therapy, did any variety of non-medication therapy to combat this. Ultimately had what I would consider
I don't want to call it a breakdown, but a breaking point one day where I had uh, convinced myself that I had gone insane and I was going to drive myself to the psych ward and got an emergency appointment in with my therapist and he said, you need medication. We can't do this anymore. This therapy, the behavioral therapy is not enough. So at that point I was formally diagnosed with generalized anxiety and OCD.
Tim Reitsma
Wow.
Alicia Disantis
So for the past 10 years, I've been, you know, just chilling. Which I say that jokingly, but the Zoloft absolutely has transformed my life.
Tim Reitsma
I'm curious, so you resisted medication and was it in your mind that, hey, I can do this or I can control this? What was going through your mind at that time?
Alicia Disantis (06:18.692)
I did.
It was the concept that, so there, so another, another stigma around this, another myth, especially within the creative industry, is that if you take medication for mental illness, it will stunt your creativity, right? This sort of bohemian trope, you know, we talked about this a few weeks ago, the Van Gogh trope that you gotta be a little bit crazy, right, to produce. You have to be a little bit unstable to produce a very good art and to have your creative outlet. So for me, in my misconception at the time, you know, I was young, I was in my mid-20s, is that no, I don't want that. There was this crippling fear that I would change who I am as an artist and as an individual, I would become a zombie. But people always say that, I don't wanna become a zombie.
It's absolutely not the case at all. So I fought it literally until I was incapacitated and it couldn't really function.
Tim Reitsma
Well, thanks for sharing that. And thanks for your openness and honesty through your journey. I'm curious about your parents and their reaction. So I've heard from numerous people who want to tell their story, but their friends, their family have no idea about what they're living with, whether it's with, you know, IBD or, uh, mental health conditions or whatever it is.
Alicia Disantis
Sure.
Tim Reitsma
How did they take it? How did you just walk in one day and be like, oh, hey, by the way, I've got OCD and generalized anxiety disorder, what's for dinner?
Alicia Disantis
I walked in the door and uh hey guys it was no it was actually it was it was quite cathartic uh my brother and sister-in-law and their baby was visiting uh summer of 2023 and I came out from Denver to visit so we all were together and we were just sitting around uh it was later but we started talking about mental illness and anxiety running in the family and this sort of thing. And I just started talking and I just, they started asking questions and I said, you know, I haven't told you guys this before. They knew they, I was very open about, you know, being on medication and my experience with therapy and everything I was going through about a decade ago, but they weren't aware of the level that it affected me as a child.
So sharing that with them, they were deeply troubled that they didn't know. So I wish you would have told us. And at that point, what could I say? I'm 10 years old. I can't get this thought out of my head and I don't know what to do. It's like, you don't know what you don't know. And that's kind of where the, you know, sensitive, she's sensitive.
Because I was so easily affected by what I would see and what I would hear, which is a classic case of OCD. So they were deeply upset about it. And as are most people that are close to me when they hear about it, they're usually shocked that I went through anything like that. So.
It was cathartic to me, probably not cathartic to them because they felt bad, but I mean, it was a long time ago. What could we do? You know, things are different now.
Tim Reitsma
Things are different now. Our medical system is very different. I'm in Canada, you're in the US, so we have very different medical systems. We're not gonna get into the pros and cons of our systems. Yet the advancements have really come a long ways. I'm a child of the late 70s, I'm dating myself. And the same thing where, oh, you're just sensitive. You just need to suck it up.
You'll get over this, you'll grow this. It'll be fine. You'll grow out of it. Yeah, how many of us have heard that? Oh, you'll just grow over it. Oh, it's just a phase. And yet when you're living through that as a young person and not sure how to even express it, and you might not even, so there might be a couple of things you might not know how to express it. And if you do express it, you're just gonna get told you're sensitive or easily frightened. So why even bother sharing?
Alicia Disantis
You'll grow out of it, right?
Alicia Disantis
Right. Absolutely. So no fault to them at all. You know, that, that just really nobody knew. And, you know, that's, that's why we're doing this. Right. That's why we're, this whole podcast exists.
Tim Reitsma
No.
Tim Reitsma
That's why this whole podcast exists. And that's why I'm seeing more and more young people being more vocal about the conditions they live with. You know, my niece who lives with type of diabetes was on an episode and she's in high school and she's like, this insulin I take keeps me alive. And when you put it into that perspective and just pause and think about that for a moment, this medication keeps me alive. You know, we're not a show that's pro or against medication.
We're not a show that's going to diagnose anything. Uh, that's for your doctors. Please consult your, your doctor. We're not a self diagnosis, uh, podcast. We're no promote that. There's power in self-advocacy knowing that there's something not quite right. You don't feel quote unquote normal. And, and you, you go to seek answers for that from the professionals. So yeah, no fault to our parents. You know, they did the best that they could. You know, I think for the most part and they didn't know. And, and here we are today, right? You decided to, you knew that something wasn't, wasn't quite right. You weren't living the, your version of normal. So you sought help. Why is it so important for you to share your story now?
Alicia Disantis
Sure. So I became more vocal about it in the past year or so. I think it's just part of a post-pandemic transparency revolution that we're having that we no longer have to be so... We don't have to hide who we are as much. We don't have to be so polished all the time. We can share our fears with our co-workers, right? If we choose to.
We can share our grief. We can cry. There was an article about crying. Why crying at work is so good. That's so great. I don't know. To me, I've never really had a great experience crying at work, but you know, I guess we could try to cry.
Tim Reitsma
Mm-hmm.
Tim Reitsma
Yeah, I guess, you know, in the, in the age of a remote office, you know, or a remote work setting, you know, I could cry at home at work and nobody will ever know. So there's it's, it's therapeutic. I mean, I think what you're saying is like, yeah, being vulnerable with. People, um, drive something that we not necessarily, we haven't necessarily seen in our workplaces.
Alicia Disantis
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Right. And for me, a combination of the changes post pandemic, what it means to be a business owner, what the relationship with your client means, the vendor-client relationship, especially within marketing and storytelling and writing, there has to be a, there's a real connection there. If someone's paying you to trust them with their business, to be the voice of their business, or to be the visual representation of their business through a logo or through graphic design, there's something very, very conjoined there that I think is more than other types of consulting and other types of services. So I think it was just a, there wasn't anything specific. It was more of a gradual thing that I would, I was starting to be a little more vocal and sharing my story with the occasional client, with the partner various people in the workplace. And it was baby steps, right? It wasn't just a giant post one day. And some people do that. But for me, it took that confidence to realize that the confidence, first of all, the confidence of moving away from that pivotal moment in time 10 years ago, where I had to get on medication immediately, but also the confidence of seeing these reactions and recognizing that people are okay with it and people are sympathetic and people want to learn more which I thought's really interesting. They'll ask questions. People really want to know more about it and I guess it's just emboldened me and now I'm at a point in my mid-30s where I just don't really care what somebody thinks. Like if you're gonna judge me for it then...
Tim Reitsma
Thank you.
Alicia Disantis
then all right, see you later.
Tim Reitsma
Yeah, that's such a common theme is people who want to share their story and then share, or I ask, you know, why is now the right time or what's been holding them back. It's fear. It's fear of judgment here, fear of offending others, fear of discrimination, fear of being misunderstood. And then the next sentence is, but if I'm judged or discriminated against, or maybe I'll lose a job opportunity, or maybe a friend doesn't want to be my friend anymore. That's not my loss. That's their loss. And we can move on from that. And so reconciling that in our minds of stepping out of that fear. And it's challenging. It's really, really hard.
Alicia Disantis
It is, it is, especially with a mental illness where it's not so cut and dry and everyone's experience is different. And even with the destigmatizing of a lot of this, so OCD, for example, one of the reasons, I felt so compelled to be on here is because OCD is so.
It's not really known. Like I would say generalized anxiety disorder is decently known at this point, bipolar, depression, those types of things. But OCD is in its own little bubble over here, like just hanging out and no one really knows what it is. Not no one. I would say the majority of people, the majority of the average person does not know what OCD really is.
So to me it was important to be like, guys, this is what it is and this is what it isn't. And we need to break down this stereotype. We need to educate and break down this stereotype of what it means to be someone living with OCD.
Tim Reitsma
Yeah. When we connected and you said, Hey, I live with OCD. The first thought in my mind, which is very stereotypical, which is very, I guess, trendy on social media is, Oh, I've got a little, maybe some OCD because I like things in order. And I keep going down this rabbit hole, preparing for the podcast.
I realized maybe I just, I'm a perfectionist or I just like things in order, which is not the definition of OCD. And so I pulled the definition just to ground us. And I think, I think this is a good definition. It comes from a government health website. And I'll just, I'm looking at my other screen. I'm gonna read it here is, obsessive compulsive disorder is a long lasting disorder in which a person experiences uncontrollable and reoccurring thoughts, obsessions, engages in repetitive behaviors, compulsions or both.
People with OCD have time consuming symptoms that can cause significant distress or interfere with daily life. That is more than just rearranging things on your desk so they're nice and neat and tidy. That is, as you know, as reading some articles, it's like, well, cool, you're a perfectionist. You're not, you maybe don't have OCD. So when you hear that definition, and then when you see...
Alicia Disantis
Right.
Tim Reitsma
when you see things on social media about, oh, everyone has OCD or to some extent, or I've got so much OCD, what's your reaction to that?
Alicia Disantis
good. It's like waves. It's every emotion within one second. It's humor, but then it's also anger, but then it's also apathy, but then it's also like determination. So it's like all these... Lots of facts. Right. And so it's... I sit here and it's like...
Tim Reitsma
Wow. That's a lot to unpack in that.
Alicia Disantis
getting dark because it's, you know, what we're almost at the solstice, which is also a very interesting time to be recording this the shortest day of the year. Right. And this is also a very challenging time for people with mental illness, um, you know, physically and mentally. Well, what these, I mean, I'm preaching the choir with you. I mean, you're up, you, how much daylight did you have today? Maybe an hour.
Tim Reitsma
Oh yeah, I'm not, I'm not from the North, but not the Great White North, eh, for all the Canadians, you know.
Alicia Disantis
Not the cream one. No. Ha ha ha. So, so back to your question. So the first thing I think is.
You know, that's not true. And it irritates me that it's tossed around in that way. And there's worse injustices in the world. But I, for anyone who says that, I would love for them to have spent just one hour in my mind during that time. And so this would have been like, I mean, I had bouts of it in my teens, bouts of it when I was a kid, and then throughout my twenties mid-20s was the worst of it, and what that felt like. And I guarantee you, no one would be organizing their nail polish by color or amount of glitter and saying that's OCD. Because...
Tim Reitsma
So I'm curious, what did it feel like? How did this show up for you? What did it look like? What were, I was just trying to get a glimpse into your mind. Oh, I'm so curious, I'm so curious.
Alicia Disantis
You don't want it. You don't want the glimpse. How did it, okay, well, I'll give you a couple of examples. So it's so intense and so traumatic. There's, I can remember, I can remember pretty much every single thing that was a trigger for me that I saw or experienced. So I'll give you, for examples. So the first big one I can remember was I was nine years old. I was at the book fair.
And there was a book on the Hindenburg crashing. And there was these big photographs of it, full spread photographs. And I remember months that tormented me. The real famous picture of it crashing, or it had already crashed and the people are running and there's the fire… unrelenting thoughts about that photograph. At nine years old.
And so you can kind of see how, how would I even talk to my parents about that? How would I be like, I'm scared of this photo or this photo, I can't get it out of my mind. You know what I mean? It just is a strange sort of thing. And it's also, for me, it's a very quiet, it's a very quiet illness. I can just sit there and no one would ever know what I'm experiencing, right? You just sit there and you think about it.
It doesn't, for me, it didn't manifest in panic attacks. It didn't manifest in anything like that. It was truly invisible. Is that you couldn't even tell by looking me at the face that it was happening. So that's one of them. Similar vein throughout my teens, I would see something. And it was like...
Alicia Disantis
It's being trapped in a nightmare. Like, so most people, you see something, you watch a horror movie, whatever, you see something, you know, that happens. Oh, you know, that's terrible. And then a few hours pass, maybe for some people, some people love watching horror movies and love that stuff. You know, they watch, they listen to Murder Mystery Podcasts and all that stuff. They find it, some people find it relaxing. You can watch it and then you just move on, right? You move on. For me,
There is no moving on. It's a cyclical. And then you obsess. That's the obsessive, you obsess over it. You want to learn more. So, you know, once I got older and there's the internet, then I go down these rabbit holes and it only feeds into it more. And then I'm researching something I saw that upset me. And then I see more things that upset me. And then it's truly, it's a waking nightmare.
If I'm not focused on something specific, like at work, and I held down a job the whole time, you know, growing my business, doing things, if I wasn't keenly focused on very, very challenging task, my brain would just instantly go back to it. And then it would start that cycle again. So, it's a...
Tim Reitsma
Wow.
Alicia Disantis
It's my brain was not happy. It was not happy. And I think I told you this before. So what it does to you is that having these cyclical thoughts where a lot of times there's a component of harming someone or doing something really horrible. And so there's the what if, what if I did this? What if I did the most horrible thing I could ever imagine? Am I capable of that?
So it's all framed in this what if realm that you are never going to be able to get the answer to. It's like, well, what, yeah, what if, what if that did happen? But there's never any, there's no guardrails. So you can continue to go down the path without any sort of realism bubble that a normally functioning brain would have, if that makes sense.
Tim Reitsma
Well, first off, thank you for sharing that glimpse into your life. I know that's a, it was a vulnerable share. And I think for the, for listeners and for myself, that just, that just paints a picture that I had, I hadn't even thought about, I had no idea about. So thanks for being vulnerable. Second is
Alicia Disantis
Sure.
Tim Reitsma
You know, if you hear that phrase, I've got so much OCD, or everyone has a bit of OCD to an extent, after hearing Alicia Disantis's story, you gotta just stop it. You gotta stop that language. Like, I don't know what else to say about that. The word micro-discrimination is now, you know, I've heard it and I've been exploring this language. That is just discriminatory language.
You know, we don't, we think of necessarily like that word discrimination and gender or, um, ethnicity, but around disability, there's so much discrimination in the language we use. And, um, yeah, wow. We, we got to stop. We got to stop this.
Alicia Disantis
Yeah, it would be really great to see a day where it's discussed within the same vein as depression and some of these more well-known mental illnesses. Because I do think a lot of people don't even realize, the people that do have it, a lot of times they don't realize they have it. Or if it comes on later in life. So there needs to be the de-stigmatization of it, recognizing it.
Tim Reitsma
Mm-hmm.
Alicia Disantis
is a very serious mental illness, but then also educating people who could have it and are living this nightmare. So the whole thing is just, it's like, when is this going to happen? Because it really seems ripe that there should be something at this point about it.
Tim Reitsma
Well, I mean, that's the whole purpose of invisible condition. And if we can change language in one person's vocabulary, and then that person changes to other people's vocabulary, and then it just creates this snowball, this, this cascading effect and, you know, I was reading it again in prep for this, I was telling you before we hit the record button is I was reading an article of a psychologist and saying, sitting down with a young patient and this young patient said.
I think I have OCD and psychologists, a doctor said, okay, well, tell me more. What makes you think that? Well, I watched this video on TikTok of somebody saying they think they have OCD and here's the symptoms. So because they think they have the symptoms, then I think I have the symptoms. And so we create this, I don't know what the word I'm looking for, almost overcorrection, like overgeneralization.
Alicia Disantis
Right.
Tim Reitsma
where we're watering down these very significant and impactful conditions. And I think, you know, social media is great, but also frustrating place because if you put a comment in there saying, this is wrong, you're gonna get attacked by 300,000 other people. And I don't know how, I don't know how to solve this, to solve that problem.
Maybe we could do it in the next five to 10 minutes. We can solve the world's problems and move on, but you have big sigh. It's.
Alicia Disantis
could. I mean, yeah, I mean, I'll give it my best shot. I'll give it my best shot. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's going to take time, right? It's going to take people sharing their stories just like with anything. It's so pervasive in the workplace. It's so pervasive. I mean, I hear it constantly in the same vein that someone, so someone organizing their sticky notes, right?
Oh, I'm so OCD about my sticky notes or my desktop. It's like, wait, well, hold on a second. Like you wouldn't say, I'm, I mean, what, I guess what would be a similar.
You wouldn't say in a business meeting, this PowerPoint is making me suicidal, right? But someone very well could say, oh, I see you're using two different fonts on this PowerPoint and my OCD is making me notice that font. So can someone please change that? So you can see how two mental illnesses of similar um similar importance i don't know importance is the right word uh are used it's totally different how they're used and how they're accepted
Tim Reitsma
Maybe I should start an Instagram hashtag. I've got so much crones right now. I mean, like, you know, if you go to the washroom or then, you know, once, twice a day, it's like, I've got so much crones. It's like, oh, try going 30 to 40 times. Yeah. Then we could talk. Then you're, then you're at my level and we can talk about this, but, but you're absolutely right. It's pervasive in the workplace. This language.
Alicia Disantis
I guess so.
Alicia Disantis
Yeah.
Tim Reitsma
the language of, oh, they're so crazy. Oh, they're so fill in the blank. Oh, they're so OCD over this. Oh, they're so, and this might offend somebody. Some people might be squirming in their headphones right now listening to this because you've said it. And you know what? I am likely guilty of saying it too. I'm not here on a pedestal saying I've never said anything like that. But.
Alicia Disantis
Because they've said it. They've said it, Tim. They've said it.
Tim Reitsma
by listening to authentic and real stories like yours, we can start to recognize our own language. And if we start recognizing our own language, we will drive change and we will then, the next step is to have the courage to correct other people's language. Like if somebody says, oh, that person is X, Y or Z, it'd be like,
Oh, really? Tell me more about that because my friend lives with OCD. And so how does it manifest for you? And sit there in awkward silence and not to make fun of anyone, but to call it out.
Alicia Disantis
Sure. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And what's been interesting for me as a business owner, and that role of being hyper aware of what I look like, how I present myself, and all the various stereotypes that go into being a female business owner, which is a whole nother conversation, but being a female business owner in a male-dominated industry with a lesser known mental illness.
It's like, okay, what does that mean if she says I have OCD or I've been diagnosed with OCD and struggled with it and it was really rough and I'm better now I'm on medication. Do they believe me? Firstly, if I've not established that trust yet with the client or are they thinking in the back of their mind, is she gonna be not able to do her job because she's gonna get distracted because she's gonna have to wash her hands all the time?
Or is she gonna be a real weirdo and not be able to focus? Or maybe she seems fine now, but maybe next week she's gonna be weird. Like all these sort of general things, that's like how do you overcome those? And going back to your point a couple minutes ago.
You don't really, unless there's the education and they want to know then, you know, sorry, see you later, right? If they're not going to have that openness and they're going to judge me, then I don't have to waste my time with them. So in a way it's a blessing because I have much more efficient, much more efficient in my acquaintances and friends and my business partners and all that.
Tim Reitsma
Yeah, it's like we talk about accommodation in the workplace, you know, as an employee, employer, but as a business owner, it's almost a certain description of accommodation. And if somebody's listening to this and you know, you're in a conversation with a potential client and they listen to it and say, Oh, I don't know about this anymore. Well, maybe you should check your biases. Simple as that. Check your biases. Um, maybe you should.
Alicia Disantis
Exactly.
Tim Reitsma
check your level of acceptance, your level of inclusion. And maybe it's an opportunity to get curious. There's so much data and I've recorded a podcast with someone who's a disability recruitment expert that's coming out in a bit as well. And we talk a lot about how people with disability, whether it's a parent or not a parent work harder than those who don't. They produce more and they're more loyal. So if there's fear of, oh, they just told, they just trusted us with this information about their condition. We don't know if we can work for them or work with them or for them or whatever that looks like. Just remember that we work hard.
Just as hard, if not harder than everyone else, because we have this, to overcome this level of discrimination. If we're a consultant, we're gonna make you a lot of money. A client, we're gonna help you out, and we're gonna make you a lot of money. And so it's time, what we need to move past this and normalize it. And I think of OCD and I think of,
The TV show America's Got Talent, Howie Mandel, very famous guy, also fellow Canadian, yay. And he's been very, um, outspoken about his OCD and his diagnosis of OCD. And do we, do we treat him any differently? No. So we, we can't treat others differently. Simple as that. Is that a generalization? Is that fair to say?
Alicia Disantis
around OCD.
Tim Reitsma
around OCD, yeah.
Alicia Disantis
Yeah, I mean, there's the thing about it is that these there's these two distinct camps of it, you know, there's the intrusive thoughts, but then there's also the tendency to do things, the habits or the certain, I guess, like ticks, if you will, of doing certain things. So and then there's overlap, too. I mean, it's just so It's, it's, it's such a gray area of
Tim Reitsma
Yeah.
Alicia Disantis
And then there's overlap in the anxiety, right? So you treat, well, at least for me, you treat OCD with the same medication you would treat depression or anxiety. So again, there, sometimes they kind of get clumped into this similar grouping. But I mean, yeah, I would say that's certainly a, that's a fair statement.
Tim Reitsma
Mm-hmm.
Tim Reitsma
Yeah, I'm curious. So somebody's listening to this and they know that maybe something's going on with them. They're not feeling like their old self or how they remembered themselves. What would you tell that person?
Alicia Disantis
Oh, I think back to my first therapy visit. I was such a mess. I remember I got in there and as soon as I sat down, I started crying hysterically. I don't even think I had a chance to even induce myself. Just having that, knowing that, you know, this was the beginning of the journey and having that safe space after trying to keep it together hour after hour, truly overwhelming.
I would tell folks to go talk to somebody. Go talk to a psychologist or psychiatrist. I mean, the psychologist is going to do more behavioral type stuff, but just speak to someone. Don't go down the web MD rabbit hole. Don't go down. Tick tock. Go talk to a professional. Talk to them about what you're going through, even if it's a single visit.
Go and see somebody and get more of an idea and don't speculate. And don't be frightened because nothing, anyone who's listening to this, no reality is worse than the reality that's in your brain when you're dealing with this. So it's all uphill from here. There's, you're at the bottom. Basically, if you're unmedicated with OCD, you're at the bottom. Nothing.
Possibly worse could happen to you than what you're already experiencing. So go and take that first step of starting to figure out what's going on with you and make things better.
Tim Reitsma
I love that practical insight right there is don't go down Dr. Google or web MD or social media, seek professional help. And there's no shame in that. There's, there's no other stigma. Sure. We're gonna end that stigma. And by you taking that first step is gonna help end the stigma that surrounds it. And that's kind of leads into the wrap up. Last question I love to end with is, how are we gonna end the stigma that surrounds invisible conditions?
Alicia Disantis
how we're going to end it.
Tim Reitsma
How are we going to?
Alicia Disantis
We're going to be advocates of it. We're going to recognize when it's being used inappropriately. And we're not going to insult the people or make them feel bad. Cause a lot of times they just don't know. Right?
going to educate and help them learn what the difference is in a way that doesn't make them feel bad, doesn't make them feel embarrassed. Purely education, right? I've never had a conversation with someone about OCD and they have had a negative reaction or laughed at me or scoffed at me, never. I'm not saying it won't happen.
But I think in general people exorbitantly over fear what's going to happen. Even if they merely have an exchange with someone about you shouldn't do that, people are not going... most people are not going to yell at you and freak out, right? They're going to be embarrassed, usually. And just continuing down that path of calling it out when you see it, recognizing and educating yourself on what it is. That's really all we can do right now and continue to share stories.
Tim Reitsma
There's power in our stories. I know there is. I've heard firsthand from people who started listening to the podcast, and there is so much power in stories like yours for stepping out vulnerably, for seeking the help that you needed, to being a functional human.
Building a business, has a successful business, and is focused at ending the stigma. I used to say, how can we? And I've switched the wording to, how are we going to? So we are going to end the stigma. And by uniting our voices, that's what we're gonna do. So where can people find you? If people resonate with your story, or people are curious about your work, the work that you do, where can people find you?
Alicia Disantis
Right.
Alicia Disantis
How are we? I love that.
Alicia Disantis
Sure, so you can either search for me, my name, or you can search for my business name. So Alicia Disantis Disantis, my business is 38th and Kip. So search for that. I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on Instagram. If you're interested in my work, what I do, if you're interested in seeing what kind of work I produce, you can go to my portfolio, which is 38th and kip.com and you know I'd love to chat about it. I'm an open book. Honestly I really don't. You can pretty much ask me anything and I'll answer.
Tim Reitsma
It's true, I've asked a lot of questions on record and off recording and you are an open book. And don't worry, we're gonna have all your links in the show notes as well. So if people are interested, head to Invi and or wherever you get your podcast, you're gonna see links there. So thanks for coming on. I really enjoyed our conversation taking us into a glimpse of
Alicia Disantis
Yeah.
Tim Reitsma
of your life that's moving and I thank you for that.
Alicia Disantis
You're most welcome. And if anything comes of it, then we've coined a new phrase. I have so much crones. I've got so much Crohn’s, bro.
Tim Reitsma
I've got so much Crohn's. Yeah. Only when I drink too much coffee or is that too much information? I don't know, but.
Alicia Disantis
But isn't it ridiculous when you think of it that way, right? If you insert another illness into that phrase, it just becomes so outrageous.
Tim Reitsma
Yeah.
Tim Reitsma
Yeah, it does. I've, I've got so much arthritis right now. It's like, no, you, you pulled something at the gym. I'm trying to look all bro or all buff. Um, you're just cold. Yeah. I love my, my famous one. My kids, uh, really don't like this is, uh, when they're not feeling well or they're stiff or sore or have a headache. I'm like, did you, did you drink enough water today? Like dad. Yeah.
Alicia Disantis
Yeah. You're just cold. You didn't wear mittens outside.
Alicia Disantis
Right, right.
Tim Reitsma
So we digress, that was a lot of fun. Again, thanks so much. And for those who are listening, I really appreciate all the comments, all the support you've been outpouring to this project. There's big things in store coming up after, I know we'll be releasing this episode before some more announcements, but please share it out, like and subscribe, whatever you do. And let me know if you have a story that you feel called to share.
Let me know and you can find all that information on the website, invi And I hope everyone has just a fantastic day. Thanks for tuning in
Alicia Disantis
Thank you.
